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COMPLAINT: Does QANTAS really want to listen to you?

 
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  #1  
Old Feb 3, 2011, 4:23 AM
rassty rassty is offline
 
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I flew from Australia to London with QANTAS at the end of last year and I was lucky enough to sit on the upper deck of a 747 on a window seat with one of those bag lockers next to the seat. After sitting down I placed my mobile phone in a secure pocket in my carry on bag, which was in the bag locker next to my seat. The mobile was not touched and I did not move it again until I searched for it when I arrived in London. Where it was then discovered that it was missing. Retracing the events over the trip it became obvious to me that the only times it could have been taken was while in the stop over in Bangkok, or perhaps when I left my seat to go to the toilet. It would be hard to believe however that someone would climb over the person in the aisle seat next to me to open the locker during the flight and go through my belongings. It is also unlikely it was the person next to me as they were company executives. I am sure their toys were worth a lot more than mine. The only time it could therefore have reasonably happened is during the stop over in Bangkok.

You might be thinking what a dope leaving your mobile on the plane during the stop over... and I would normally agree, but here are some extenuating circumstances. The staff over the intercom clearly stated that it was fine to leave your bags on board for the stop-over as long as they were in the locker, nothing else was mentioned and a stewardess confirmed that it was fine to leave my bag where it was. What also didn't help was being in a sleepy befuddled state after having half slept and sitting in my seat for about 9 hours. So I left the plane with my wallet, boarding pass and passport, but no bag, laptop, mobile and my other electronic paraphernalia. Obviously after arriving in London the mobile wasn't there in the bag, it had disappeared.

The whole crappy customer relations starts after arriving in London. A baggage claims person in Heathrow was nowhere to be found and the phone was never answered at baggage claims when I called them. I therefore went to baggage claims upon return to Sydney to report the issue. The lady there was very kind to place a report. She also mentioned that they would get in contact with me. They did not. What I wasn't told was that I needed to make a separate claim to have QANTAS further investigate the issue. In other words make sure I have to go through maximum effort to get anything done. I contacted them about my report about a month later and was only then told to put in the separate claim. If it is deliberate policy to not inform clients of the procedures up front it makes it really difficult to feel that QANTAS in any way wants to deal with passenger issues and improve customer relations.

Anyhow the claim was made and it was stated that they would get in contact with me. I called QANTAS to find out what was happening with my claim and it turned out they had not even assigned it yet. It was not until I called again a week later that all of a sudden a person was assigned to my claim. After not getting called by this person I called them again to talk to my customer relations person. This customer relations person immediately stated she could do nothing for me. The only thing she cared for was that because it was a claim that she would not pay me anything to replace my mobile phone. Fair enough, no commercial company ever wants to take liability for these types of items. She refused to talk about anything else to do with this. I asked and finally received my first call from QANTAS and that was her customer relations manager who asked me to repeat what my issue was, which I explained to him. The first thing he said was we are not paying you anything. Again not a major element, but would have been nice in order to placate a customer with a serious issue. What they refused to acknowledge is what worries me. That there is a real likelihood that a staff member or contractor in Bangkok could have taken it upon themselves to go through passenger property and stolen from them.

What I would like to know is how often this happens. Are there more people for whom this has happened but have not reported it? ... and therefore it is QANTAS' rude method of fobbing me off and not facing up the possibility that this might be occurring that most concerns me.
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  #2  
Old Feb 3, 2011, 2:17 PM
bilingual bilingual is offline
 
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The cabin crew were obviously given you very wrong information, a lot of cases has happened where passengers had their valuables stolen either by cleaning crew or even cabin crew at a stopover or even when they slept at night.
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  #3  
Old Feb 4, 2011, 8:04 AM
The_Judge The_Judge is offline
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Matters little if the cabin crew gave wrong info or not. Rassty could have had a bag full of gold bars. It his his/her property and it should not have been touched, case closed. That said, rassty is a realist and understands that an airline will fight until the very bitter end to not pay any claims. However, customer service should have been given and that failed miserably, it seems. Status quo these days for most airlines.
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  #4  
Old Feb 4, 2011, 12:34 PM
bilingual bilingual is offline
 
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Originally Posted by The_Judge View Post
Matters little if the cabin crew gave wrong info or not. Rassty could have had a bag full of gold bars. It his his/her property and it should not have been touched, case closed. That said, rassty is a realist and understands that an airline will fight until the very bitter end to not pay any claims. However, customer service should have been given and that failed miserably, it seems. Status quo these days for most airlines.
It matters, because the airlines does not compensate you if somebody steals your belongings in-flight or you forget it, as trains and buses neither do.
It is only coverable by your own insurance.

But the airline needs to be addressed in order to stop recommend passengers leaving their belongings on-board at stop-overs.
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  #5  
Old Feb 6, 2011, 12:35 AM
HoustonFlyer HoustonFlyer is offline
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Originally Posted by The_Judge View Post
Matters little if the cabin crew gave wrong info or not. Rassty could have had a bag full of gold bars. It his his/her property and it should not have been touched, case closed.
Of course it matters. And I don't see the point of stating the obvious like it is his property and is should not be touched. But it is pointless to say that. The real question is whether the airline has to answer for it. It is like if you are on a Greyhound bus and you leave your bag on board during a rest stop, is Greyhound responsible. No, you did not hand them your bag. If you enter a museum and you check you briefcase at the bag check room, and on it being handed back to you it is broken open and things are missing, they are responsible because they become a bailee having accepted it for safekeeping. But if you put your briefcase down on the floor of the museum and go to the washroom and come back to find it broken into, the museum is not responsible. The airline did not fail in anything here, Judge. Case closed.
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  #6  
Old Feb 6, 2011, 2:22 AM
The_Judge The_Judge is offline
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Ah....an individual who will soon have a red label. Welcome.

Let's imagine for a minute that this is your bag and your phone that is missing. I know you would never leave your valuables in such a position but for the sake of our discussion, you did.

Now, using your logic, you would just say, "Oh boy, stupid me thinking that putting my phone inside my bag which is in a closed bin was safe. Oh well, I'll just blame myself and not the airline employee that stole it from me."

Or would you do what a normal human would do and file a complaint and call the police? Although the police in Bangkok can be less than unhelpful to foreigners, believe me on that one.

Anyway, if you truly would do as you say and basically just write it off, you have a different way of thinking than most everyone I know.
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  #7  
Old Feb 6, 2011, 3:00 AM
HoustonFlyer HoustonFlyer is offline
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Judge, how do you know it was an airline employee who stole it? If you are from Bangkok, it must be guys like you who lurk around the airport who could have slipped into the aircraft and stole it. It could be a fellow passenger who stole it. If the flight attendant said it was fine to leave it that is not the same as implying that the airline would be liable if things were lost. The airline cannot be liable for the theft in those situations. The owner of the property must take reasonable care to protect his property and he well knows it was stupid to leave his cell phone, an item that fits so easily in one's pocket, on the aircraft.
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  #8  
Old Feb 6, 2011, 3:07 AM
The_Judge The_Judge is offline
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You forgot to answer my query after your personal attack of me being a thief.
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  #9  
Old Feb 6, 2011, 3:13 AM
HoustonFlyer HoustonFlyer is offline
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Originally Posted by The_Judge View Post
You forgot to answer my query after your personal attack of me being a thief.

Judge, there is no personal attack on you. It was a general comment on Bangkok and you seemed to be from there as you said to believe it from you some comment about Bangkok police - that suggested some personal knowledge. Anyway it is well known that Bangkok has more than it's fair share of pickpockets and handbag snatchers and it is a city where visitors have to be extra careful with their personal belongings. Perhaps this OP did not know, but this thread should serve to inform unsuspecting travelers with stops in Bangkok not to leave themselves open to this kind of theft. I didn't say or imply that you were the thief, but if the cap fits ...
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  #10  
Old Feb 6, 2011, 5:05 AM
HoustonFlyer HoustonFlyer is offline
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I can't help remembering the song by Murray Head "One night in Bangkok" and the words

"One night in Bangkok and the tough guy stumbles
Can't be too careful with your company
I can feel the devil walking next to me"

As travelers we need to know what cities we are passing through. Greater precautions are needed in some cities and Bangkok is one of them. It is a fair chance that someone working in Bangkok airport, not necessarily an employee of the airline, gained access to the aircraft while it was on the tarmac.

What this OP did amounts to the same as leaving a bag unattended on an airport chair then returning to find an item missing and complaining to the airport authority. Yes he can complain, but don't expect the airport to compensate you. If the police find your cell phone on the culprit that's the best you can hope for. But in this case he discovered it in London then reported it in Sydney. What was to happen here - Interpol should have been called to locate the missing cell phone.

Judge I can't imagine if you are an ex airline employee you want to blame the airline in any way for this or blame their lack of customer skills. I am not even an employee or ex employee of any anrline but I say the blams falls squarely on the shoulder of the passenger who can't bother to put his cell phone in his pocket before leaving the aircraft, and wants to lay the blame at the door of the airline whose employees said it was fine to leave the bag on the aircraft. Telling you it is fine to leave a bag on the aircraft is not telling you to leave valuables that someone can easily slip out of the bag and into their own pocket in the bag.

If the OP was too sleepy and befuddled to think, then that is where the blame lies!

But even if a passenger were minded to make a complaint, it is noteworthy that the complaint was not made in London where it was allegedly discovered but after returning to Australia. Is the OP saying there were no Qantas employees anywhere at all in the airport. How about a letter of complaint to Qantas offices in London dispatched the same day?

Last edited by HoustonFlyer; Feb 6, 2011 at 5:09 AM.
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  #11  
Old Feb 6, 2011, 5:28 AM
The_Judge The_Judge is offline
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It doesn't matter if I am a former airline employee or not. I blame who I believe is in the wrong. Because a passenger was told he could leave his bag on the plane for the stopover, does he/she deserve to have an item stolen from him by an employee? And yes, it is an employee. Aircraft parked at gates are secure and cannot be accessed by the general public or non-airline staff. Many times, even airline staff have to show their ID's when accessing the aircraft to a security person who is at the door of the aircraft. We had to do that in HNL when I worked there.

My point is and I can't believe this is so hard to understand, the OP's personal property was stolen from him/her. Because they foolishly left the bag on the plane does NOT mandate that something be stolen from it. What happened here is that someone intentionally went through it and removed property. That is a crime and the OP should be compensated by the airline as it was in their care and instruction was given to leave their property if the desired to do so.

Just a sidenote.......I've seen a couple comments inferring Bangkok to be dangerous or dodgy. In 15 years of traveling to and from and while living there for several years, I can't remember ever having any more of a problem in any other place I've ever lived in the U.S. Less, probably.

Last edited by The_Judge; Feb 6, 2011 at 5:31 AM.
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Old Feb 6, 2011, 5:58 AM
HoustonFlyer HoustonFlyer is offline
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Originally Posted by The_Judge View Post
Just a sidenote.......I've seen a couple comments inferring Bangkok to be dangerous or dodgy. In 15 years of traveling to and from and while living there for several years, I can't remember ever having any more of a problem in any other place I've ever lived in the U.S. Less, probably.

Judge,

In cities like these, the thieves do not target their fellow local thieves. Their targets are the foreigners. Hence the precautions and warnings are directed to the tourists. I would have thought that obvious.

The sordid life of Bankok with its pickpockets, massage parlors and prostitutes has been immortalised by Murray Head's hit song quoted by another member.

By the way how did you know you can't access the aircraft. Did you try?

Last edited by HoustonFlyer; Feb 6, 2011 at 6:01 AM.
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  #13  
Old Feb 6, 2011, 6:25 AM
The_Judge The_Judge is offline
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Your first paragraph is nonsensical. A thief preys on opportunity. Doesn't matter if the opportunity to thieve would arise with a tourist or a fellow thief.

Originally Posted by Miles
By the way how did you know you can't access the aircraft. Did you try?
Because you need to swipe an airport id/badge and input a PIN to unlock a door or use a code on a cipher lock that only that airline's employees are aware of.
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Old Feb 6, 2011, 6:37 AM
HoustonFlyer HoustonFlyer is offline
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Originally Posted by The_Judge View Post
Your first paragraph is nonsensical. A thief preys on opportunity. Doesn't matter if the opportunity to thieve would arise with a tourist or a fellow thief.

This is just the point Mr Judge. Let me spell it out for you since you can't figure out why the thieves would leave you alone if you live in Bangkok. The thieves would not harass you because they would think, "That Judge guy is just a poor thief like me who steals a cell phone and sells it back for $5 to buy a bowl of rice for himself and his family. He is just as broke as I am."

The thief will see a better opportunity to steal from the traveler who foolishly leaves his things lying around.

By the way I'm not alleging you are a thief. I'm just speaking figuratively. But I have to say you seem to be happily going along with it.
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Old Feb 6, 2011, 6:41 AM
The_Judge The_Judge is offline
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We'll just have agree that we disagree, Miles.......er sorry, Morgan.
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Old Feb 6, 2011, 5:45 PM
HoustonFlyer HoustonFlyer is offline
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Originally Posted by The_Judge View Post
We'll just have agree that we disagree, Miles.......er sorry, Morgan.
Sure, Thie .... Sorry Judge.

By the way, I'd like to buy back the cell phone and give it to the OP. How much do you want for it?
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  #17  
Old Feb 6, 2011, 6:17 PM
The_Judge The_Judge is offline
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Originally Posted by Miles View Post
Sure, Thie .... Sorry Judge.

By the way, I'd like to buy back the cell phone and give it to the OP. How much do you want for it?
Seeing as I haven't worked for an airline since mid-'08 AND wasn't in Thailand at the end of last year when the OP said the phone was lifted AND didn't work for Qantas AND valued my job more than a cell phone, you can take your accusations and throw them elsewhere.
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Old Feb 6, 2011, 8:46 PM
HoustonFlyer HoustonFlyer is offline
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Are you trying to mislead us Judge? You are the one saying it is an airline employee who did it and I am saying it could be one of you guys hanging around the airport. I don't buy it when you say it can't be you because you need a special code to get in. As an ex employee you will know the code and your pals will turn the other way when you walk in. We know how thieves work. You just share the spoils with them when you sell the stolen merchandise.

Something I find odd, although I am not saying it is proof of anything, is on looking at your profile, your last posts were at end September begininng October when you were calling someone moron, doofus, ******* and ****. Nothing more from you for months until this thread where someone lost something in your hometown of Bangkok. You come on to say that it is an employee. As an ex employee you would be one of the few persons who would have the means to enter the area. Were you questioned by the police about the cell phone and you decided to resurrect just to shift the suspicion to a present employee?

The value of a phone is not just the cost, but the OP will have all his contact numbers stored on it which will not be of any value to the thief.

If you want to name your price for the cell phone, just pm me but be reasonable. I am now in Atlanta and will send the cash by Western Union and you can Fedex the phone to me and I will make arrangements to get it to the OP. No one has to know. Let's keep this private.

Last edited by HoustonFlyer; Feb 6, 2011 at 8:48 PM.
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  #19  
Old Feb 6, 2011, 11:20 PM
AirlineComplaints.org AirlineComplaints.org is offline
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HoustonFlyer and Miles and Morgan are the same person.

All accounts have been merged into the original (HoustonFlyer).

User has been warned. If he does it again, he will be permanently banned.
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