[Extremerecluse]

On an international flight from Detroit to Tokyo. 747-400. I am a commercial pilot, so I am always watching the flight status. We are an hour and 30 minutes into the flight. Winds are out of the east at around 70 mph. The flight crew is fishing for the strongest winds. Usually, the winds aloft are out of the west giving a strong headwind. A frontal boundary is causing this reversal. When a crew decides to fly along a frontal boundary the turbulence can get severe. So we fly directly into severe turbulence. This is a risk the crew decided to take. During this bronco busting ride, all food went sailing. Drinks also. We experienced negative 2 Gs. This is a very quick dive. Then we went about 2.5 Gs lateral. The lead flight attendant ordered her fellow attendants to secure themselves. They were in the middle of meal service. What happens when you are in a hurry; mistakes. I could here a very loud crash up forward. Many passengers got sick. After landing, I was almost at the exit door when I could see the flight attendant telling the cleaning technician about what happened. She told him the the entire contents of one wall of the galley came crashing to the floor. The technician stated he could not clean the flood in only 1.5 hours. So a flood occurs aboard a commercial airliner and it will not be cleaned in time. But wait a minute. This incident occurred 10 hours ago. And the galley floor is still flooded. Where did all of that fluid and other food matter go. Gravity is always reliable. It went down. Down where. To the lower bulkhead in puddles. Fluid in bulkheads starts corrosion, which causes cracks, which causes parts failures. The pilot in command was one of the first crewmembers off of the plane. How in the heck did he have time to go down below and then write up what happened? He didn't!!! You see. If an incident occurs in flight, it must be reported. You then must list the cause. Known flight into severe turbulence. Poor pilot judgement. No severe turbulence then no incident. Nobody sick. No food and drink on floor. No flight attendant holding onto her crew seat in state of terror. We all make decisions. Some good and some bad. This pilot screwed up intentionally. Actually, he had taken a risk. Do I avoid that turbulence and cost the airline $25000 in fuel costs or fly straight through it and save the airline $25000. Again, we all make decisions. I remember a flight from Los Angeles to Detroit. Each and every time the Delta pilot in command hit moderate turbulence he reduced power, thus reducing the severity to the crew and passengers. As we were getting of the aircraft, the captain was their. I made a comment "those throttles work good" He was confused. I then praised him for making good decisions about safety. He thanked me. That is the kind of decisions I expect from an airline Captain. That is why he is paid the big bucks!!! Will I fly Delta again? Not in the near future.

[cliff7080]

When did this happen? I don't see any recent reports on SEVERE turbulence anywhere recently.. If they were in the middle of the meal service then you KNOW there MUST have been injuries from that type of turbulence. If the crew were standing up and you went though NEG 2g and then 2.5g BEFORE they were told to secure then there MUST have been some very severe injuries.

[Extremerecluse]

You actually think a pilot would report flight into known severe turbulence? Talk about self incrimination. Its all about money. Every extra minute in the air costs 100s. That is why passengers have this forum.

[cliff7080]

If this plane went into a negative 2g dive, with people still standing up serving dinner, then there would have been a LOT of VERY seriously injured people with People, food carts and food spread ALL over the ceiling..

Just how did you KNOW it was a negative 2g dive and a lateral 2.5g recovery? Do you really carry instruments to measure that? AND looking at the Delta Detroit/Tokyo schedule they only fly that route with a 777 and they haven't used a 747 on that route for a long time.

So how about you answer my original question? Just WHEN did this happen?

[Extremerecluse]

This is an official investigation by Delta and the FAA. Enough said!

[Extremerecluse]

I was a military pilot. I think I can speak knowledgeably about forces during flight.

[Extremerecluse]

Originally Posted by cliff7080

If this plane went into a negative 2g dive, with people still standing up serving dinner, then there would have been a LOT of VERY seriously injured people with People, food carts and food spread ALL over the ceiling..

Just how did you KNOW it was a negative 2g dive and a lateral 2.5g recovery? Do you really carry instruments to measure that? AND looking at the Delta Detroit/Tokyo schedule they only fly that route with a 777 and they haven't used a 747 on that route for a long time.

So how about you answer my original question? Just WHEN did this happen?

These 2 g dives lasted .3 seconds each. You need to stop nit picking and start telling the truth about what really goes on in the cockpit. Safety is a culture. I would like to have been a fly on the wall observing the flight crew. Most crews are safe. Some are more than willing to take risks if it improves the bottom line. Jet A fuel is very expensive and it accounts for most of the expenses in a flight. The passengers do not have access to 4-Point seat harnesses. Don't fly as though they do!!!#

[Extremerecluse]

Originally Posted by cliff7080

If this plane went into a negative 2g dive, with people still standing up serving dinner, then there would have been a LOT of VERY seriously injured people with People, food carts and food spread ALL over the ceiling..

Just how did you KNOW it was a negative 2g dive and a lateral 2.5g recovery? Do you really carry instruments to measure that? AND looking at the Delta Detroit/Tokyo schedule they only fly that route with a 777 and they haven't used a 747 on that route for a long time.

So how about you answer my original question? Just WHEN did this happen?

Are you trying to help Delta so when the FAA comes knocking, you all have your stories straight? Is that why you want the flight details? If the flight crew gets violated so-be-it. I was not sitting behind the flight controls. I was a helpless passenger wanting to get to my destination in complete safety. How much would it have cost the airline for the pilot to reduce power until we were past the turbulence? What caused that galley to fly apart? I would say the flight crew alone, or maybe one of the FAs caused it because she was angry at the flight crew.

[Extremerecluse]

Originally Posted by Extremerecluse

Are you trying to help Delta so when the FAA comes knocking, you all have your stories straight? Is that why you want the flight details? If the flight crew gets violated so-be-it. I was not sitting behind the flight controls. I was a helpless passenger wanting to get to my destination in complete safety. How much would it have cost the airline for the pilot to reduce power until we were past the turbulence? What caused that galley to fly apart? I would say the flight crew alone, or maybe one of the FAs caused it because she was angry at the flight crew.

I give up. It was me. During the most severe turbulence, I decided to run up to the forward galley. With herculean strength, I managed to pull everything down from the wall. I then hurried back to my seat in row 62 without anybody noticing. I am the guilty one.

[Extremerecluse]

Originally Posted by cliff7080

When did this happen? I don't see any recent reports on SEVERE turbulence anywhere recently.. If they were in the middle of the meal service then you KNOW there MUST have been injuries from that type of turbulence. If the crew were standing up and you went though NEG 2g and then 2.5g BEFORE they were told to secure then there MUST have been some very severe injuries.

So you receive reports from Delta Airlines. Since when?

[Extremerecluse]

Originally Posted by cliff7080

When did this happen? I don't see any recent reports on SEVERE turbulence anywhere recently.. If they were in the middle of the meal service then you KNOW there MUST have been injuries from that type of turbulence. If the crew were standing up and you went though NEG 2g and then 2.5g BEFORE they were told to secure then there MUST have been some very severe injuries.

Hi Cliff. Where do you get your reports. Which airline flight ops lets you in on internal matters. Do you actually receive weather briefings from the airlines. Please let us all know what your reason is for monitoring this website.

[Burgers]

One word: hyperbole. Too many holes in this tall tale to bother to respond to.
I was a Naval Aviator but your somehow inference of "expertize" leads me to question if you've ever flown anything but a flight sim on a PC.

[cliff7080]

So its simple to answer the question.. Exactly when did this happen?

[Extremerecluse]

I wish I was making this up. The average passenger is clueless as to how to go about reporting what happened. My experience 2300 Army Rotary Wing and 200 civilian fixed wing. Rating: Commercial Instrument Rotary Wing. The incident occurred aboard Flight Delta 629 on July 21 at around 1700 Eastern Time. Type Aircraft Boeing 747-400. Takeoff 1500 Eastern. Altitude 37,000. Location US/CANADIAN BORDER, winds varying from around 090 at 60MPH TO 270 AT 50MPH. This data was taken from my seatback monitor. I wish I was making this up. My only concern is safety of flight, nothing more. The incident is under investigation by Delta Operations and the FAA.

[Burgers]

If you know this is under investigation, please share the date, and flight number.... otherwise its a bunch of childish BS.

You should want to do the public good saving us from such a dangerous flight crew by outing such individuals. Or did this all happen in your mind Walter Mitty

[Extremerecluse]

Flight 629
July 21
DTW -- NGO
1500 Departure

[Extremerecluse]

I don't know why most here are trying to sharp-shoot me. Why on earth would I make this up. My own license is on the line if what I am saying is false.

[Burgers]

I think the OP is funny as can be.... so I'll bite.
Just to punch a few holes in what otherwise is a bizarre story.
747-400 doesn't have a second officer. Good news, I guess he won't kill himself....
Wiring bundles are not attached to the aircraft skin.
You speak of putting your license on the line for making a false accusation....please elaborate indicating what statute/regulatory body and what specific license are we talking about.
It isn't unheard of having flight crews tell passengers with hot drinks during severe turbulence to dump the drinks in the aisle - been on such a flight.
Schooling people on international departure airports from Japan only works if you are correct. Saying there are only two neglects: HND, KIX, CTS, FUK, OKA, OKJ, HIJ, plus others.....
DL's 747 are being retired quickly and will not last beyond their next D check perhaps not even a C check so you have no fear of catastrophic corrosion.
Aircraft computers can't dampen out extreme turbulence, give your head a shake.
You may think you can bamboozle people with your claimed expertise but doing that risks someone calling you on it.... damn dude it isn't imagination cap, its tin hat with you.

[Extremerecluse]

So Mr Burger. Do you think the Captain has tried to hide this incident/accident so he wont have to explain flight into known turbulence? And was he authorized to sign off safety of flight items without having an A & P? Is the aircraft grounded until an inspection takes place?

[Extremerecluse]

What do you think Deltas operation/safety dept will do?

[Extremerecluse]

Let me know what aviation certificates/ratings you have Mr Burger.7

[Extremerecluse]

Mr Burger,

Could you tell us what aviation experience you have to include ratings and certificates?

[Extremerecluse]

Mr Burger,

What regulation governs safety of flight?

[Extremerecluse]

Originally Posted by Extremerecluse

So Mr Burger. Do you think the Captain has tried to hide this incident/accident so he wont have to explain flight into known turbulence? And was he authorized to sign off safety of flight items without having an A & P? Is the aircraft grounded until an inspection takes place?

My money is on the Pilot-In-Command hoping that everybody keeps their mouth shut. I reported this to Delta upon return to Detroit. It sounded as though this was a surprise to Delta, because they were forwarding it to operations and maintenance. They could have easily checked before calling me. We will see what happens.

[Extremerecluse]

Too bad I didn't get any sleep on the plane. Way too uncomfortable!! But, as I was getting off the plane in Manila,I actually spoke to the Pilot-In-Command. I asked him if their were noise restrictions because he never engaged the reverse thrust. He stated that he needed to make it to the end of the runway so regular braking was used. It was a crying shame I was so exhausted to ask him if he knew what happened with that galley wall. Just think, if he was never informed and I was the first to say anything. I am sure he would have been Livid. :