[msc39nj]

Go out of business and spare consumers future problems. They can even keep the money and miles they owe me. It would be worth it to see Continental gone and know the world was free of double-booking fraudsters who don't deliver the basic service they sell. This is the worst airline in the world. Don't fly Continental. Don't waste your time. They don't want to talk to customers. They will steal your money and you won't even be able to get someone on the phone complain to, unless you like waiting on hold for hours. They will screw you at the worst possible moment.

[Corbel]

i cant believe people are like this. wishing for thousands of people to loose their jobs because a few employees are bad. sure you may have a rude agent or flight attendant. but why wish the people who do care to be out of a job. ive never had anything go bad or wrong with continental and will continue to fly them

[Butch Cassidy Slept Here]

First, we all know that, in the US, the airlines, and their employees, are ALMOST immune from the consequences of ANY kind of bad behavior. The only exception which comes to mind is the judgement Northwest Air had to pay-out because of their stranding of passengers on a snowed-in tarmac during the nineties. The argument from airline employees which says we are hard working people who do our best to serve customers is total BS! The reality is there is no policing, by co-workers, of airline employees who have no ability to relate, appropriately, to another human being. Thus these so-called "innocent" airline employees are indeed part of the problem and richly deserve the consequences--if there were any! As to customer behavior, anyone who is drunk; assaultive; or threatens physical violence deserves whatever they get. However, this board is full of stories of customers who get the cops called on them, and get kicked-off planes, and/or kicked out of the airport for making reasonable requests, or asking reasonable questions!

[ChrisH]

This is wrong. I've seen numerous of my co-workers fired for complaint letters sent in, about them, by customers. The reason things are usually not done, is that most passengers do not take the steps to formally complain, and get the name of the agent they dealt with. If they do, corrective action is taken, from suspension, to termination. In just the past few months, I've seen three of my fellow co-workers fired, for complaints.

I happen to be an airline employee, and I do go out of my way to serve the passengers. I know many agents who do just the same. You cannot lump all airline employees into one. That is BS. How are innocent employees part of the problem? It isn't my job to police my co-workers ... I am not a manager, or a supervisor, and it isn't my job to tell somebody else how to treat a customer. If I see something, that I think needs to be reported to management, I do just that, but at that point, it in the hands of management, not me, or any other "innocent" airline employees.

BTW ... I've seen fast food places offer more starting pay than many airlines pay their agents. The start of where to get good service, is for the airlines to start paying for it. If you pay fast food wages, that is the exact quality of service that you will get.

Don't just lump all airline employees into one, and blame the front line employees, doing all of the work, dealing with the delays, and cancellations, and lost baggage, etc., (which isn't their fault), for $8-9/hr, working sometimes 10-12 hours days. I have worked 11-12 hours per day, for the past two weeks, not by choice, and by the time those weeks come to and end, I'm not in that great of a mood.

Non-airline employees should stop pretending that airline employees are the only one's that can be rude. I've been treated rude my many companies, non-airline, many times. Cashiers at Wal-Mart are rude, many times, and they probably make more than that person who is dealing with you at the airline counter.

Originally Posted by Butch Cassidy Slept Here

First, we all know that, in the US, the airlines, and their employees, are ALMOST immune from the consequences of ANY kind of bad behavior. The only exception which comes to mind is the judgement Northwest Air had to pay-out because of their stranding of passengers on a snowed-in tarmac during the nineties. The argument from airline employees which says we are hard working people who do our best to serve customers is total BS! The reality is there is no policing, by co-workers, of airline employees who have no ability to relate, appropriately, to another human being. Thus these so-called "innocent" airline employees are indeed part of the problem and richly deserve the consequences--if there were any! As to customer behavior, anyone who is drunk; assaultive; or threatens physical violence deserves whatever they get. However, this board is full of stories of customers who get the cops called on them, and get kicked-off planes, and/or kicked out of the airport for making reasonable requests, or asking reasonable questions!

[msc39nj]

This is the only industry I know of where fraud is legal. you can legally sell the same seat two or more times and, as I have now learned, sell seats on flights you don't intend to operate. If you would like to defend the jobs of what I believe are likely thousands of hard working and good employees in the industry then you should be fighting, as an insider/employee, for the proper treatment of customers. call it job security. Continental has inflicted itself upon me. I bear responsibility for having made a bad choice in attempting to use them. Now I must fight against the numerous roadblocks they throw up to discourage me from recovering the money and time they have cost me.
As for 'not believing' there are people like this, put yourself in my shoes: You pre-book and pre-pay months in advance. You agree to show up on time and follow the rules and submit to this ridiculous airport security ritual, and be treated like cattle for an exorbitant price. The day before the flight, during the busiest season of the year, the carrier cancels the flight. But, they don't tell you. You get no phone call, you get no email. Your friend calls you and tells you they heard from 5 other people on earlier flights. There is no information for contacting the airline except through the reservations number. When you dial it, you are told by an automated recording, wait times are an hour or more. In fact, while I was writing this, I just got through to a supervisor in Houston who treated me rudely and would not provide full identification, and was not interested in helping us at all, even when I informed her I was complaining to the DOT and Attorney General of NJ. Basically, they don't care. So I say, good riddance.

[ChrisH]

You do realize that security is not done by the airlines, and they have no control over it. If you want to complain about security, go to TSA.gov, and send them a complaint. Don't blame Continental. Also, air fare, is not anywhere near what it should be. Air fare should be 2-3 times what it is. Considering inflation, etc., you are lucky you get tickets for what you do. Air fare is no different today, than it was 20-30 years ago. Someone flying you across the country, should incur a hefty price, In my opinion. I find it funny how people want absolute cheap prices, but then turn arount and demand first class service. That is like going to McDonalds, and demanding gourmet.

People say the airline industry is the "only industry where this and that......". The airline industry is the only industry where customers seem to think they shouldn't have to pay, and the company should bow to them. It is the only industry where customers will find the cheapest possible ticket, and then have first class demands. Guess what, the airlines can charge what they want, for what they want, just like Wal-Mart, and McDonalds can charge what they want, for what they want. When Wal-Mart starts charging more for something, people just complain that things are getting more expensive, but when the airlines charge for something, it is "fraud". LOL!!!

By the way ... Do you think Continental is the only airline where what you experienced, is experienced. Go view the complaints about all of the other airlines, and you'll find complaints just like yours. So what will happen, is to avoid flying Continental, you'll possibly spend more, just to put yourself at risk of getting the same treatment.

By the way ... I am a pilot, and weather effects aviation is far more ways than just, is there a thunderstorm out your window. Winds aloft can be 100+ MPH, while at the ground they can be 5 MPH. This can cause delays, yet be a perfectly clear day. ALSO, just because an airplane is scheduled to fly from point A to point B, with you on it, doesn't mean that weather being bad in just those locations, point A, and point B, effect the flight. The airplane can be coming from another city, where the weather is bad, or weather along that route can be bad. These type of cancellations, and delays happen to all airline, not just Continental, and they also effect Joe Schmoe in his little private plane. I've had numerous flights I've had to cancel, flying personally, in my little private plane, for weather. If you knew how weather effected aviation, and how thunderstorms, rain, etc., only scratch the surface, you'd realize how ignorant most passengers are, when they try to make these claims about weather not being an issue, or "I just talked to my friends who said it wasn't even raining". I literally have to bite my tongue not to laugh at those people.

At any rate ... your hope of Continental going under, probably will not happen. Continental is in much better position than most airlines. They have a young fleet, of fuel effecient aircraft. On top of that, despite you experience, Continental is frequently ranked airline of the year, #1 airline in the world, and frequently ranks high in customer satisfaction ratings, next to SWA. Just because you had one bad dealing with Continental, with a few bad apples, doesn't make it a bad airline. Again .. look at the complaints on this message board, for the other airlines. You are kidding yourself if you think flying another airline will prevent this from happening to you, again. But, to each their own. It makes no difference to me.

Originally Posted by msc39nj

This is the only industry I know of where fraud is legal. you can legally sell the same seat two or more times and, as I have now learned, sell seats on flights you don't intend to operate. If you would like to defend the jobs of what I believe are likely thousands of hard working and good employees in the industry then you should be fighting, as an insider/employee, for the proper treatment of customers. call it job security. Continental has inflicted itself upon me. I bear responsibility for having made a bad choice in attempting to use them. Now I must fight against the numerous roadblocks they throw up to discourage me from recovering the money and time they have cost me.
As for 'not believing' there are people like this, put yourself in my shoes: You pre-book and pre-pay months in advance. You agree to show up on time and follow the rules and submit to this ridiculous airport security ritual, and be treated like cattle for an exorbitant price. The day before the flight, during the busiest season of the year, the carrier cancels the flight. But, they don't tell you. You get no phone call, you get no email. Your friend calls you and tells you they heard from 5 other people on earlier flights. There is no information for contacting the airline except through the reservations number. When you dial it, you are told by an automated recording, wait times are an hour or more. In fact, while I was writing this, I just got through to a supervisor in Houston who treated me rudely and would not provide full identification, and was not interested in helping us at all, even when I informed her I was complaining to the DOT and Attorney General of NJ. Basically, they don't care. So I say, good riddance.

[msc39nj]

I am sure most employees are 'good' people, but you only highlight the problems with an airline like Continental. First, the customers pay for the service, and when customers are not happy with the service, they do this thing called complaining. Accept it. Or, don't take our money. Then won't complain. Your service is your service, including all its packaging and delivery (airports, TSA security). Nobody comes to the airport just to experience the sublime pleasure of standing on lines, going through security checkpoints and waiting through delays. The airlines collect all the fees, regardless of where all the costs are, so in the end, it's all their 'product' as far as their customers are concerned, and that's all that matters. Second, let's accept your assertion about pricing. I suggest then that Continental double? triple? it's fares, whatever it takes, stop selling tickets to passengers that it doesn't intend to honor (you've pointed out the motivation to overbook or book tickets on flights you never operate), and attempt to operate profitably. Nuissances like me (other industries think of us as a blessing called 'paying customers'), will either choose not to fly with Continental and go away, or we will choose to fly because Continental provides a valuable service as advertised, and Continental is free to deliver on the promise it made when it sold the ticket, and we won't need to complain, and everyone will be happy. Or, other airlines can operate profitably at present prices while satisfying customers, and Continental will cease to exist. Doesn't matter to me which it is.

[jimworcs]

Firstly, saying that an unacceptable practice is "standard" in the industry doesn't make it right. Airlines have choices.. for example, some low cost airlines do not over book. JetBlue in the US and Easyjet in Europe for example do not do this. If there are no shows, they will sell the seats to standby passengers 40 minutes before departure. It is absolutely wrong that the airlines have been permitted to sell seats that they do not have and strand passengers with the defence that it is in the T&C'S.

Secondly, the airlines set the prices. Passengers do not expect "first class service", but they do expect to be made whole when the airline screws up. Unfortunately, airlines are abdicating their responsibilities in this regard and passengers are left in a uniquely vulnerable position, which is not comparable with other service industries.

Next, the airlines are de-regulated. Normally, where industries are de-regulated they are subjected to normal competitive pressures. However, the US airline industry lobbies and fights to prevent this. They operate like the Robber Barons, demanding special priviledges such as protection from competition and even from being subject to take overs and these are granted by the US Congress. They are effectively subsidised, and misuse Chapter 11 protection repeatedly to screw their employees, customers and suppliers. It is scandalous abuse of their monopoly power and when customers object and complain, their employees come onto websites such as this and defend them.

I don't wish ill on anyone, but corporations which abuse their effective monopolies have to face consquences or they will get out of control. Look at the arrogance of the banks and ask yourself that if they had been properly regulated would this have happened? The answer is no. The same applies to the airlines. Competition only works in a properly regulated environment. It is time to take measures which include:

1. Re-regulating the industry
2. Strict enforcement of minimum standards of service, with fines and
penalties for failure to adhere to them.
3. Drop restrictions on foreign ownership of airlines
4. Drop restrictions on the operation of airlines from other countries
competing with US airlines
5. Ban the sale of seats more than once
6. Prohibit any airline from seeking Chapter 11 protection from creditors
more than once every 20 years
7. Levy penalties and fines on airlines where the DOT establishes any
dishonesty or malfeasance by airline employees. For example, if an
airline refuses lawful compensation and is subsequently found to have
mislead passengers (eg. blaming weather delay when it was in fact an
operational one), to triple the compensation to the passenger.

[Corbel]

when i was a customer service agent, i always cared about the customer and as a flight attendant i still do. so for you to say we dont care is BS. there are some who do care like me. i ALWAYS went out of my way to help the customer. we had an incoming flight that was delayed by 4 hours due to weather and the car rental companies in the airport were not going to stay. i recieved a call from one of our passengers and i found them another way of transportation to a local hotel and told them the number to the cab company so they can call them in the morning to get them back to the airport for their car. i received a card from them telling me thank you. i always bent over backwards for our customers....i just dont like it when im getting screamed and yelled at by a passenger that is delayed due to weather when its beyond my control. i dont like how they can yell, scream, poke, and grab me, but if i scream at them they somehow get a free ticket.....explain that to me

[Corbel]

i am going to agree with you on contacting a passenger. i remember when we would have a cancelled or delayed flight (Transmeridian airlines, now no more) i would be at work until at least 2am calling ALL passengers i could and telling them of the delay or cancellation. its AMAZING how much they appreciate it. HOWEVER, if you book with a travel agent we dont have your number so we cant call you, so we would have close to 12-20 people we couldn't reach due to that. so if you booked with a travel agent i can see why they couldn't reach you. but if you booked online or over the phone, i agree, the airline should call you they have your number/email i booked a ticket on northwest and united for march, my schedule has changed for both flights on both airlines and both airlines notified me by email.

[PHXFlyer]

Do not add any more to this or any other thread started or added to by msc39NJ. I did a thread search and this user has posted the exact same rants on almost every Continental thread. The past few days have been difficult for air travel. The combination of bad weather plus the volume of passengers traveling for the holidays has left the system backed up with peole trying to reach their destinations.

I'm assuming msc39nj is from New Jersey and probably had a flight out of Continental's Newark hub. He needed only to look out his own window to know what was going on with the weather. Regardless if he was contacted about the cancellation or not wouldn't common sense tell one when there is snow ice and wind that one should call or go online to check the status of one's flight?

As for "double booking" the airlines overbook with the expectation, and they have historical records to substantiate this, that a certain number of passengers will cancel or no-show for flights. If they only booked to the capacity of each aircraft they would be flying with empty seats which is not profitable. All airlines do this so directing a complaint about over-booking at any one airline is pointless.

You obviously had a bad travel experience but does that really necessitate posting to 14 different threads that Continental is criminal and should go out of business?

I traveled yesterday to Newark. When I arrived at 7:30 PM the airport was utter chaos. Many cancelled flights on the display screens, customers in queue to be re-booked, aircraft parked all over the place, etc. Now imagine that the number of people I saw only represents a portion of those affected by cancellations. I'm sure the rest were trying to reach Continental by phone. If you don't have the patience to wait on the line just as everyone else in your situation must then that is your choice. Perhaps you'd rather go to the airport and wait in line for the same amount of time or more?

Finally, if your flight was canceled, you can go to Continental's website to re-schedule your trip with no change fees. Here's the announcement:

EventTravel to/from/throughDatesAdditional InformationWinter StormContinental hubs: Cleveland, OH (CLE); New York/Newark, NJ (EWR - Liberty)
Other airports: Boston, MA (BOS); Cincinnati, OH (CVG); Columbus, OH (CMH); Dayton, OH (DAY); New York, NY (LGA - LaGuardia); Philadelphia, PA (PHL)Original Travel Dates:
Dec. 18, 2008 — Dec. 22, 2008

Final Travel must be completed by:
End of Validity of ticket (one year from date of issue)Change fees and/or additional fare collection will be waived if the rescheduled flights are booked in the original class of service to the same city pairs as originally ticketed and rescheduled travel commences on or before Dec. 29, 2008.

If the new travel commences after Dec. 29, 2008, change fees will be waived, however, additional fare collection will apply.

[msc39nj]

I agree 100%. Listen to what PHXFlyer says. Don't post anything in response to my postings. Instead, post your complaints about Continental to the DOT at http://airconsumer.ost.dot.gov/escomplaint/es.cfm. There is nothing I can do for you. On the other hand, complaints registered with the DOT are 'charged' against the company, and reported to the media. So, if there is anyone who is going to care, you'll get to them by submitting your complaints there.

Continental is terrible. This board purports to be a place to complain about airlines, and continental in particular. I don't see any claim that it is a Continental booster board. People don't visit to say nice things about Continental. You can make up all the platitudes and imaginary weather forecasts you want. I looked out my window all day yesterday and saw nothing but blue skies. There were nothing but blue skies the entire time I waited at the airport. Numerous Continental flights left the same airport on the same day for the same destination, both before and after the cancelled flights. Continental cancelled the flights, provided no notification- no phone call, no email, and if they did put something on their website they didn't do a very good job, because that's the first place I went and nothing stuck out as particularly informative, except for the visually unobvious 'cancelled' status listed along with all the usual flight into, when requesting the status of that particular flight. Like it's no biggie. The only reason I noticed it was a friend told me several flights were cancelled. It's funny that I had no problem calling, reaching, booking and flying JetBlue from the same airport on the same day, to the same destination. Apparently, they learned from their past mistakes, and know what customer service means.

This is a place where people voice complaints about Continental Airlines. I think that providing information to people how to make their complaints in a manner that might get Continental interested in addressing them properly is perfectly reasonable. When a company chooses to treat its customers like dirt, they should expect to be creating negative goodwill.

[ChrisH]

By the way

Airline executive WANT open skies agreements. Executives would like to have deals with foreign carriers. It is the labor unions that are fighting to prevent this from happening. AA's CEO has been trying to work a deal with British Airways for an OpenSkies agreement, before Bush leaves office (Obama is against it). I doubt it will happen, due to strong opposition from labor, however.

McCain, for example, was for doing away with cabatage laws, that prevent foreign carriers from having ownership of a U.S. airline, and from airlines entering into agreements with these foreign carriers. Airlines execs were big McCain supporters. They want this. Labor groups are strongly against this, thus were very pro Obama. Labor wants their jobs protected.

Again, it isn't the executives trying to prevent this, it is the labor groups, and unions.

As per 9/11. Many airlines entered into sham bankruptcies, and the main purpose was to get around expensive labor contracts, in particular, the pilot contracts. Before 9/11, pilots were making atronomical pay rates, and they weren't willing to budge, on concessions, in most cases, thus the airlines went to BK court, to have them thrown out.

Many laws have been changes, since 9/11, to prevent the airlines from doing this again. As a result, in the last year, airlines filing for BK, such as Aloha, ATA, and many other smaller airlines, have filed BK, and liquidated. They were not bailed out.

The airlines are not protected as much as you think, and much of the protection that is in place, is there due to labor unions, not executives.