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Alaska Air / Horizon Air Complaints>Another customer with items stolen from luggage
Gromit801 4:42 PM Feb 3, 2010
1. The one carry on and one personal item rule is not an airline rule. It is an FAA Regulation and enforced by TSA. The airline AND the passenger can be fined for breaking that regulation.

2. It is up to the passenger to decide what it important to them. If their "comfort" items are more important then their expensive camera gear, that's the passenger's choice.

I'm a serious film photographer in conjunction with my career as a graphic artist. I will often have to pack photo gear and a laptop. There are camera backpacks with enough room to pack both, as well as clothing and comfort items, and still fit in the overhead.

Check the Tamrac Expedition Series.
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The_Judge 5:02 PM Feb 3, 2010
Gromit......I believe you're mistaken. According to the FAA's travelers website, they advise passengers to check with the airline as to the size and number of carryons allowed. Here is a snipet that I'll provide the link for later.........."Check with your airline before packing to determine it's carry-on guidelines regarding the number of items you may carry and the maximum size of those items."

FAA's travel website

Also, the TSA is not the enforcer, the FAA is. TSA is part of Homeland Security not the FAA or even DOT.

This wasn't part of what I did so this will serve as my disclaimer for any wrong statements. Haha.....I'm covered.
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jimworcs 5:23 PM Feb 3, 2010
Bob,
I know you love this kind of pedantry, so I will make this my last rebuttal on this topic or it will never end.

My basic premise is this: there is simply no evidence to prove that the TSA are more likely to steal items from your bag than airline employees.

You posted links to stories about thieving TSA employees. I posted links to stories about thieving airline employees. Neither address the basic premise. All we have proved is that both organisations have thieves.

Gromit said
Originally Posted by :
it is likely your stuff was stolen by TSA
I challenged this and said there was no basis for him saying this.

Nothing you have said in your elaborately pseudo-forensive responses contradicts that. Neither Gromit nor you have any clue who stole the OP's stuff and neither of you can say with any evidence, that is it more likely to be the TSA vs an Airline Employee.

That is my position... and now, I am done on that topic, so your next post will be the last word. Fill your boots!

Gromit,
Despite airlines seeking to disclaim responsibility for items which are in their care, I do not think they can impose terms and conditions which absolve them of their legal obligations. The best avenue is to go to the DOT and Small Claims. The airlines will often lose and some, such as in my earlier link, such as Spirit have been fined by the DOT for attempting to do so.
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Gromit801 8:31 PM Feb 3, 2010
Yes, they can pose terms and conditions. Just like renting an apartment, or sending stuff via UPS. Anyone can impose terms and conditions in a business transaction.

Since TSA has been documented for stealing items from bags, I have quite a solid basis for saying this.
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jimworcs 9:24 PM Feb 3, 2010
Gromit,
Yes indeed... any business can impose Terms and Conditions.. except where those terms and conditions breach regulations, international treaties or the law. For international travel, these are governed by treaty and no airline can create T&C's which abrogate that treaty. Therefore on international travel, the airline cannot exclude electrical items. This doesn't seem to stop them trying. Equally, for domestic travel, the airlines are regulated (with a light touch, sadly) by the DOT. Despite their best efforts, airlines cannot change the regulations by putting it in their T&C's. This explains why many airlines have been heavily fined by the DOT when they are found to be in breach. I have provided a link to a fine for Spirit in an earlier posting, in which one of the breaches was specifically an attempt by Spirit to refuse to cover the theft of a laptop.

So, I am afraid you are wrong. You can impose Terms and Conditions, except where they breach the law.
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Silent Bob 3:41 AM Feb 4, 2010
Yes jim, move on because you're really bad at this. You're right, your original stance was not to say that TSA is more likely to steal than an airline employee, you're original stance doesn't statement doesn't mention TSA, Your original statement tries to refute gromit's statement, who originally said "There's no way to know who took it".



Jim = Fail

Originally Posted by :
There have been numerous cases of thieving airline employees taking customers stuff, and many have been prosecuted. He goes on to contradict himself by stating the more truthful "there is no way of knowing who took it". But what the customer does know is this: they placed their luggage in the care of the airline, and the airline didn't take sufficient care of it to ensure it was delivered whole to the customer.
My original point was to show that a TSA could have done it as well. Why argue that? Why ask who is more likely than who to steal if BOTH are capable of it? (again my original stance). It doesn't matter if you provide links that says its an ongoing issue. It's an ongoing issue on both sides. My original point was to show that TSA is capable of theft. And to the OP I included both parties rather than point fingers at one. Here's a reminder:

Originally Posted by :
To the OP: if you wanna find out who took your camera, or look to be compensated for the loss you cannot blame one. Blame all! Start with TSA, whom are the first hands in the cookie jar and work your way from their. You cannot automatically assume an airline agent took it, though jim is correct, Airline agents are not innocent, they steal as well. But it is also well documented that TSA agents, customs agents, hell even police officers have a tendency to "dip in the till".

Yes jim, let this go. This is much to big for you to even attempt to defend, because you simply don't know how or just too blinded by what Delta did to you.
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Cicero 4:46 AM Feb 4, 2010
Banned
Originally Posted by Silent Bob:

Jim = Fail
Apparently this board has an examiner in the person of Mr Silent.

Better keep silent, Mr Silent.
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Silent Bob 7:09 AM Feb 4, 2010
Sinfa... I mean Jerkero.... I thought signing up twice was an automatic banning? You can try to silence me..... but it ain't happenin.
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Gromit801 4:52 PM Feb 4, 2010
Originally Posted by jimworcs:
Gromit,
Yes indeed... any business can impose Terms and Conditions.. except where those terms and conditions breach regulations, international treaties or the law. For international travel, these are governed by treaty and no airline can create T&C's which abrogate that treaty. Therefore on international travel, the airline cannot exclude electrical items. This doesn't seem to stop them trying. Equally, for domestic travel, the airlines are regulated (with a light touch, sadly) by the DOT. Despite their best efforts, airlines cannot change the regulations by putting it in their T&C's. This explains why many airlines have been heavily fined by the DOT when they are found to be in breach. I have provided a link to a fine for Spirit in an earlier posting, in which one of the breaches was specifically an attempt by Spirit to refuse to cover the theft of a laptop.

So, I am afraid you are wrong. You can impose Terms and Conditions, except where they breach the law.
And the terms and conditions set by the airlines do not breach US law. Just like leaving your car at a garage, they post they are not responsible for belongings left in the car. This has been upheld in courts.
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jimworcs 11:36 PM Feb 4, 2010
That analogy doesn't work Gromit... a garage with public access is in a very different position compared to an airline which charges people to transport their luggage and keep it in their care. What is your explanation for Spirit being fined by the FAA for refusing to cover a laptop, even though electronic items are excluded in their T&Cs?
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Gromit801 12:09 AM Feb 10, 2010
Where in my post did I say anything about public access? If I take my car across the street to the garage (repair shop) they are not responsible for items left in the car. It's posted, and upheld in the courts.
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jimworcs 12:24 AM Feb 10, 2010
It's upheld by the courts but the DOT imposes fines on Spirit for not accepting responsibility for a laptop.. what could the explanation be? We will never know, but you never answer the question.
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Cicero 2:30 AM Feb 10, 2010
Banned
My senior partner and mentor Silent Bob Jerkero says that there is a DOT regulation saying that once the airline accepts the bag, whatever is in it is protected.

Here is the link

http://airconsumer.dot.gov/rules/webnotice_04012009.pdf

Notices disclaiming liability are not always accepted by the Courts as binding even if it is posted.

Silent Bob Jerkero considers (and I agree with him), in the case of a car being taken to the garage, the owner can reasonably be expected to clear the car and leave his belongings at home. So the disclaimer is not onerous on him. In the case of the passenger, it may impose an unfair burden on him to comply with a requirement not to check in electronics if it is too large to fit in his carry on.

I'd like to say this is my last post on this site.
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The_Judge 2:20 PM Feb 10, 2010
Probably a wise move. You will be missed though. I will especially miss our PM's in which you've shown me what kind of a guy you truly are. The board will never know the the real you. So long, Sybil.
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Cicero 5:37 PM Feb 10, 2010
Banned
Private Message: Re: Quiet in here, isn't it??
Yesterday, 08:40 AM
The_Judge
Former Airline Employee
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 451


Re: Quiet in here, isn't it??
You should have your own tv show. It could be called, "I'm a ****face and have no life so I have to go to airline websites to make myself feel good".

When my mom was getting paid to be ****ed, she was taking dollars not baht. Get your ****en facts straight, you imbecile. You like to make your ideas fit the story despite the facts. What a **********. How much do you get paid to suck ****? I hear you do it for free cuz you like the taste right after it comes out of your ass.


Judge I wasn't goint to post again, but since you were brazen to come here to talk about pms, perhaps the board should see the above pm you sent me, esp what you had to say about your own mother.
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Silent Bob 1:04 AM Feb 11, 2010
Honestly pussero, do you think anyone is gonna take your word - same guy who's been a jackass sin his sinfail days till now? Dude that was as lame as you are stupid. You really need to get a life, seriously get a life. Go back to your barbies and cabbage patch dolls and leave this forum for the big boys mm-kay?

sad, stupid, fail.
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The_Judge 5:56 AM Feb 11, 2010
My PM's pale in comparison to what I was subjected to. The admin had a few of those and chose not to take action. I don't know of what good you posting this one is. If it's to get me in banned, I doubt that will happen and if it does, so be it. I'll have felt better for the completely blindsided insults you hurled at me.
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The_Judge 5:15 AM Feb 19, 2010
As Cicero likes to post PM's......I'll let the board see one of your mildest ones to me ever. Oh...and welcome back. I knew you couldn't stay away for long. You are now on my ignore list with, as you called him, "my Greek personality", Ullyses.

Private Message: jimworcs
Today, 11:18 AM
Cicero Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 33

jimworcs

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Yesterday, 09:46 PM
The_Judge
Former Airline Employee
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 465



No offense but it sounds like you tried to board early numerous times. Not a federal crime but why not wait until it's your turn? Also, from your description, I fail to see where she was rude in dealing with a person who tried to board out of turn several times and in the end, actually did.


Hey ****

I've been amused by your encounters with Ullyses who according to jimworcs is my Greek personality.

I see he has not commented, so I will do so and say that this is the point in this thread where jimworcs must say that this was unethical behaviour and start up on bankruptcy -
and you like a donkey continue on talking about bankruptcy. The best joke is that neither of your doofuses know your ass from your elbow when it comes to bankruptcy.

His problem is that he got stiffed by Delta once and he can't get over it, and Delta fired your ass a few years ago and you can't get over it.
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The_Judge 5:34 AM Feb 19, 2010
Oh yeah....before I forget again, Cicero.....can you produce the correspondence between you and the admin here that you said he is aware and gave his permission for you to come back from being banned as Sinbad to being Cicero? I'd gladly un-ignore you to see it.
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The_Judge 2:40 AM Feb 20, 2010
Well, I didn't have my buddy on ignore in the hopes he would answer my above question but instead received another wonderful PM. This one also mild in nature compared to past ones. Here's a screenshot of it......click on it to enlarge.
Attached: screenshot.jpg (79.5 KB) 
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Silent Bob 3:28 AM Feb 20, 2010
Now wasn't that lovely? And he even addressed himself as SINFAIL LOL So it looks like we're trading places, he's your nemesis now? Or is this a dual hate thing?

And still no banning huh?
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The_Judge 9:50 AM Feb 22, 2010
I see my question has been ignored by the party being asked. Could one speculate he was lying?? I'm sure the true Cicero wouldn't lie about such a trivial matter but his namesake apparently has no integrity.
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mars6423 8:57 PM Feb 22, 2010
hey there is no knowing how low one can fall, sin has fallen into a bottomless pit, a black hole, the bermuda triangle and there is no coming back, he has no pride in himself

he says one thing and than he goes back on it.....i thought he was going to stop posting, oh well i guess its entertainment

he has gone to a level that takes skill(?) since you gotta try pretty hard to have no faith in your own name
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Researcher 1:48 AM Dec 23, 2010
Dear user: I am developing a Doctoral research on Mishandled baggage (see General Discussion- Mishandled Baggage Research ) Could you please, provide the airline complaint form (minus personal information) you filled with the airline or send me an email to [email protected] and I will send a survey. The survey is very similar to the one you must file with the airline and does not contain personal information.
Thanks before hand
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