[leegold]

SHARON GOLDSTEIN

14 AV JEAN MOULIN

34290 ABEILHAN

FRANCE

33 4 6737 2468

[email protected]

October 13, 2008


LOST BAG: MRSLH13893
REIMBURSEMENT REQUEST

My Lufthansa luggage experiences began in Newark on 1 October.
We had four large bags to check. Three of them were overweight. The agent explained where we had to go to pay the overage charges. I asked if we needed to come back to show her we had paid and she said no, she could see us walk over there. After we paid, I did return to the counter, to find the agent we had dealt with had gone to lunch (or on a break) and discovered one of our bags was still standing there. I asked another agent to put it on the conveyor belt. I believe she did.

When we arrived in Düsseldorf, we went to a Lufthansa service desk to confirm that our bags had been transferred to our flight to Marseille. The agent assured us there was no problem.

We arrive in Marseille and discover, one of our bags is missing – the same one the agent in Newark had left standing there. We filed paper work. Through out October 2, no one could tell us where our bag was. Finally we got a call around 10am asking me to verify contents of a bag they had found in Munich*. I verified the contents, which according to the agent included a digital camera and two pairs of black shoes, and the agent said I would receive my bag on October 3. She suggested I call back in the morning after 10am to try to get a better estimate of time.

Finally on October 3, I was able to reach Marseille, where they confirmed they had the bag and said it would arrive in Montpellier at 6pm. I said we would pick it up because I was in a hurry for the contents. We get to the airport and Air France tells us that the bag is not there. No one could tell us where the bag was. Marseille was not answering the phone (a frequent occurrence) and customer service had no idea where anything was or what was going on except to tell me my bag was not lost since they were still looking for it.

I finally reached Marseille and they told me it would not be in until tomorrow morning and my bag was in Lyon! I just received a call from Air France confirming that the bag was expected tomorrow.

I would like to understand the following:

How could the agent in Newark just leave one bag standing there and go off on a break?
How could the agent in Düsseldorf, not check all the tags to make sure everything had made it on to the other plane to Marseille.

The bag ended up in Munich – so why did it go from Munich to Düsseldorf to Marseille to Lyon on its’ way to Montpellier. Lufthansa and Air France could not come up with a more direct route?

Why was Luftnansa unable to return my bag within 24 hours once they located it?

I would request a refund of my entire ticket price so I can make alternative plans for my return to the United States since I never intend on flying Lufthansa again. I would be afraid to check luggage. In Marseille when I asked how could you lose a bag – they proudly assured me that they average one bag per plane that lands every day! One has to be nuts to check luggage on your airline and with all the restrictions on carry-ons, what choice does one have.

*- When she was trying to identify whether the bag was mine, she mentioned two specific items – a digital camera and pairs of black shoes. The bag arrived on Saturday and guess what items were missing – the digital camera and the two pairs of black shoes.

The camera was less than a year old. It was a Canon PowerShot S5 IS $349.99. I had two pairs of black shoes in the bag. – Manufacturer: Taryn Rose – average cost per pair; $300 – one pair was new and the other was three years old.

By this letter, I requested from Lufthansa the reimbursement of the cost of the following items:

• Camera - $349.99
• 2 pairs of shoes - $600
• Hair products I had to buy when my bag was lost - $60

When in a week I had not received a reply, I tried to call Customer Service. There is only a fax number listed! I was told that no one at Lufthansa has a telephone number for these folks. When I asked to talk to the Chairman of the company, I was told that they are not allowed to contact customers to his line.

[The_Judge]

Thank you for your post. It sounds like you had a horrible trip losing a bag. I'd like to make a few comments, if I may, since you put it on a public forum and I have some experience in this field.

You mentioned that you asked the LH agent in Dusseldorf to verify that your bags were transferred to your fight to Marseille. There is absolutely 100% no way for that agent to know this unless he/she physically went down to the aircraft and searched through the hundreds of bags that are buried on the flight. Even if they had a system which scans tag numbers (which they probably do) the time it would take to find the right person to call with the actual piece of equipment in their hand to verify this would be so time consuming that it would take away from the agents duties to work the flight that you are travelling on. All he/she can do is check you baggage receipts and verify they are checked correctly.

Your other question is concerning how an agent could leave a bag "sitting there" and go on break. Lack of information to answer. Sitting where? On your side of the counter, on her side, on the platform? You have some responsibility to put the bag where the agent can tag it. Also, why do you insinuate the agent went on break? And even if he/she did, are they not entitled for a break to eat or use the facilities? My guess is the agent was to be in another work area as we have been cut to bare minimums and are expected to do be in multiple places throughout our tour.

As far as not getting your luggage in 24 hours, I am not sure how LH resolves this. It sounds like they did drag their feet and should have gotten the bag to you more promptly. And items missing, the very items you described when talking to them, is not excusable. It does sound like they probably removed them to verify and failed to return them to the suitcase.

You also say you want a 100% refund. You are not entitled to that as you used their service. You couldn't eat your meal in a restaurant and then ask for your money back. I realize you only used 1/2 of the round trip but the refund on the other 1/2, depending on your ticket, could probably be nil. Your trip is priced based on a round trip. Your ticket would have to be repriced and any penalties deducted, you may end up owing the airline as silly as it may sound.

You are also asking for reimbursement for your missing items. Completely legitimate. However, you are asking for the same price for 2 pairs of shoes that you admitted that 1 pair is 3 years old. How can you justify that a 3 year old anything still has original value. You are entitled to compensation but please be realistic in your values.

[jimworcs]

I find this approach unfair and typical of attitudes within the airlines. The customer had a camera and two pair of shoes. She was not intending to sell them, and whilst their value if she were to sell them would have been lower, she did not intend to sell them.

The customer entrusted her camera and shoes to the airline, and the airline confirmed that they had these items. They then negligently lost them. To pay the "second hand value" of these items does not make the customer whole. She cannot go to the camera shop and get a camera to replace it for a second hand price. This is an injustice, the customer is worse off and has not been made whole.

She started her journey with a camera and two pairs of shoes, and after being compensated using your method of calculating, she would be worse off than when she started.

How is this justice? If I stole your watch, and the court ordered me to compensate you, would it be fair for me to pay you the second hand value of the watch? That would leave me better off... I have a watch and you have insufficient money to buy a replacement. That is not just and I hope I never come before a "judge" like you.. you appear to have no natural sense of "justice".

[Eagleguy]

Legally you're only entitled to the value of the object...not the original price. Depreciation dude.

[The_Judge]

Jim........this is what you would get in court...... as Eagle guy said, value of the article........not replacement value. These is not my rule or even an airline rule. This is real life. Check it out.

[The_Judge]

-duplicate post-

[jimworcs]

What has the fact that if she sued, that is all she would get, got to do with it? Since when has the minimum protection provided by the law determined how someone should treat a customer? She is a customer of the airline and they have messed up and have a moral obligation to make her whole. How you are treated as a customer is not solely determined by the law. For example, if you buy a product in shop, and decide you don't want it (wrong colour, wrong size, whatever) you can often return it for a refund. If the product is not faulty the shop has no legal obligation to accept the return, even if you have a receipt. However, most reputable shops will accept a return and refund or issue a credit note. There is no legal obligation whatsoever to do so, but they choose to treat their customers fairly. Airlines are abusing their power and on many routes they are monopolies, with no other carrier offering direct services. It is time to re-regulate stop their abuse of their market position.

[The_Judge]

Once again your analogy has no comparison to your argument. We do not disagree that a shop would give you a refund if you wanted to return a product that you do not want.......provided, as you said, you have a receipt. Plus, most shops will have a timeframe that returns will be accepted. I don't believe 3 years is a fair amount of time, in your analogy.

Look, the airline is at fault for losing some items from this passenger's luggage. No doubt. But you can't honestly expect a 3 year old pair of shoes is worth the same as a brand new pair. And that is technically what we are disagreeing on.......is worth.

I don't think you'll agree with me so I'm not gonna waste my time in this thread anymore. Maybe someday you'll realize the facts........hopefully not the hard way. Take care.

[jimworcs]

You have misunderstood my example. The stores which accept returns was to illustrate the principle of companies going beyond their legal obligations, to satisfy the customer. No store is under any obligation to accept returns, but do so voluntarily to ensure satisfied customers.
In this case, Lufthansa's actions are particularly egregious because the 'lost' items were the ones located by Lufthansa to verify the bag was hers. So having lost her bag, they compounded their error by then losing further items. That is gross negligence, and deserves a more appropriate response than the legal 'minimum'.

The reason we won't agree is because the airline industry post de-regulation has been able to exploit their power and abuse their customers. The staff have been cut to bare minimums, are stressed, disempowered and often seeking simply to get the passenger out of their face, rather than genuinely trying to help. It is a cynical disregard for the vulnerability of their customers and arrogant. Before all you airline employees (and ex employees) vent your wrath, I acknowledge that not all airline employees are like this, some customers are obnoxious but in recent years the attitudes of the airlines to their customers has changed dramatically for the worse and it is time action was taken. Shall we leave it there?

[Silent Bob]

If you read their post from the beginning Jim, you would see that eagle guy and judge don't disagree with leegold, in that she is due reimbursement of her items that were lost. However if she were to present this case to a court of law, she would only be allowed current market value for her items due to depreciation. Also Lufthansa can argue that the digital camera should not have been there at all, we're never supposed to pack electronics due to theft, not just by airline employees, but also tsa, customs, whomever has an opportunity to rifle through our stuff, we shouldn't keep anything of value in there. Also she is asking for 60 dollars in hair care product. Is it all new? partially used? And the shoes she does admit are 3 years old, if she can prove the shoes are worth the same now as they were 3 years ago then yes i say give it to her, but I don't think so.

I also understand what you are saying about "going above and beyond to please the customer" and hey I agree, because sometimes you get that one agent that will do so. However in this case, going above and beyond does not mean giving in to every demand such as (let's give back money on an entire trip that's partially used, or give full reimbursement on items that may be less than their market value). I stated this in a post about how my fellow passengers want more than what should be given and this is just an example of that (i forget the thread, but its at the top of the main page).

[jimworcs]

I did in fact read the posts from the beginning and fully understand that they were suggesting that the compensation should be based on the depreciated value of her goods. I also fully understand the legal issues. My main issue is not even the initial loss of the bags. It was the second one. The argument that "Lufthansa could argue it shouldn't have been in there", indicates an attempt to shift responsibility. If you hand your coat in to a restaurant and leave your wallet in it, is it your own fault if the wallet is stolen? This is ambiguous morality. You are entitled to expect that your property will not be stolen when trusted to the care of others, particularly when they charge for looking after it. I realise there is no proof these items were stolen, however as Lufthansa spoke to the customer and used the digital camera as evidence that it was her bag, then proceeded to "lose" (or steal) the items which were in their care; and given that it was for the second time, I consider this to be outrageous. It is on that basis that I feel that this customer deserves to be made whole. Incidently, I have never suggested that she should also get her flights fully reimbursed.

If you look at some of my other posts, you will see that if I think the customer is being ridiculous, I am quite prepared to be direct about it. (See Delta tried to kill me, for example). However, I find the justifications for Lufthansa's treatment of this customer offensive. They lost her bags, messed her around, caused great inconvenience, then opened the bags to identify items which could prove the bag was hers and then "lost" those items, including a high value item such as a digital camera. Having conducted themselves in a poor manner, airline employees come onto a public forum and suggest that she is unreasonable by asking to be made whole and implying that it could be argued that it was her own fault. The world has gone mad. We blame the victims and look for every dodge in town in order to avoid taking responsibility for our actions. I recognise that a culture has developed in which customers demand compensation for every minor inconvenience and perhaps exaggerate claims. When a bag goes missing it is suddenly full of designer clothes and fancy electronic equipment. However, in this case, the airline confirmed the items and should put their hands up, acknowledge she had been treated badly and pay proper compensation, beyond the legal minimum in order to make good the egregious nature of their negligence.

[The_Judge]

Agreed, Jim, pay the lady. I 100% agree with you. Airline blew it completely by leaving those items out when they gave her bag back. She is entitle to reimbursement.

I don't really appreciate the lumping of all employees in the fact you said "airline employees come onto a public forum and suggest that she is unreasonable by asking to be made whole and implying that it could be argued that it was her own fault. " I never said it was her fault for leaving a camera in her checked bag. It is certainly not the smartest move and I always told a passenger, when I was asked, to carry it with her. But regardless, it was in there and she is entitled to be compensated for it's loss. But not what the original value is. I don't know why you can't see that. Sure, it would be great for an airline to go above and beyond but those days are gone. With all the cutbacks and bankruptcies and such, airlines are not in the habit of giving more than what they have to. It's just a fact. Good or bad.

Anyway, enough of beating this horse, I'm soon off on my own trip for my own problems. First real ticket I've bought in decades. Looking forward to seeing how it goes.

[jimworcs]

Lets hope you have a great trip and all goes smoothly!!

Let us know how it goes....

Jim