[Flying Dutchman]

AS 856 LIHOct 05 12 11:17 AM
After receiving two e-mails that Flight AS 856, was to depart at 11:17 am a delay of 42 minutes. We arrived at the gate at 10:50 am only to find out that the flight had closed ( 27 minues before our posted departure time).
The gate agent had a departure time of 11:04, our e-mail from Alaskan stated 11:17. She closed the flight, even though she has received word of our delay.
The airline offered $75 as compensation. The website states : to be there 30 minutes before to "protect the reservation". Our reservation was still protected but the plane left 27 minutes before sceduled and advertised departure. NOT FAIR!

[cortney]

do you know the reason for the delay? alot of times, agents will tell people to stay at or near the gate area. delays (for any reason) can change in an instant. Did you hear the boarding calls or last minute pages for your names?

[azstar]

When an inbound aircraft leaves its origin city late, computers automatically update everything with an "estimated" departure time for the outbound flight because passengers insist on being informed. However, frequently the aircraft arrives much earlier than the expected time and departs earlier than the "estimated" posted time. Unfortunately, many infrequent travelers believe the posted departure time to be official, and they show up, thinking they're fine, to an empty gate and a departed aircraft. That is one of the reasons that every "contract of carriage" states you must be at the gate 20-30 minutes prior to departure.

[xjcaptain]

I wonder how all those other passengers managed to get on the flight? Must have been pure luck.....or common sense. When a flight is behind schedule, stay near the gate because the airline wants to MINIMIZE the delay to get their people where they want to go, as close to on time as they can. Chalk it up to a lesson learned about air travel.

[Flying Dutchman]

Originally Posted by cortney

do you know the reason for the delay? alot of times, agents will tell people to stay at or near the gate area. delays (for any reason) can change in an instant. Did you hear the boarding calls or last minute pages for your names?

Delay was announced at 8 am that morning by e-mail.
I realize that delayes can increase but decreased?
Advertized departure times should be honored in my opinion.

[Flying Dutchman]

Really people, that's the lesson? Don't rely on what the airline tells you?
Why then be notified of a change........So you get an e-mail: Flight has been cancelled...Oh wait it's on again, we changed our mind...sorry you missed it???! HaHa you've got to be kidding me..funny world we live in.

[The_Judge]

Here's why a delay may decrease. The airplane is repaired quicker than anticipated. The airplane being used makes up time enroute to the location you are at. A different aircraft is used than the one that the delay is being used in the delay. A different crewmember is found and used rather than the one they were waiting for. The aircraft is MEL'd rather than repaired. There are numerous reasons, most of which the passenger doesn't get but the bottom line is when the flight goes off scheduled departure time, it is more than wise to be in the gate waiting for word rather than not. An obvious lesson learned here.

[jimworcs]

As usual... a load of baloney to "justify" the actions of the airline. What is the point of notifying passengers of the delay, if the information cannot be acted upon?

Alternatively they could have put in bold a statement stating that this is for information only, and that all passengers should arrive at the gate for the originally scheduled time.

There is no justification for notifying passengers of a revision to the schedule then laughing in their face when they act on the information.

As flying dutchman asks, what would happen if your airline tells you your flight is cancelled. Do you not believe them and turn up at the airline. How do we know when we are supposed to believe them and act on it or not?

It is RIDICULOUS

[The_Judge]

You take some personal responsibility and stop acting like sheep then blame the herder. FFS, everything in this world is blame the other guy. You need to use some common sense and be proactive about things or what will happen is you'll write to a message board like this one and we can debate it till the sheep come home. Bottom line is use your head, we all know airlines lie, that has been beaten to death here so show up for your flight on time and you can't miss it. Period.

[jimworcs]

Wtf are you talking about Judge? If an airline writes to you a month before and tells you that the flight has been cancelled do you believe them then? A day? the same day? When does the passenger know to believe the airline?

What if the airline cancels the flight and reschedules you for the day before? If you turn up at the scheduled time and say we didn't believe you because everyones knows you are liars, do you think that would wash?

WHY is it the passenger responsibility to assume the airline is lying and the airlines responsibility to communicate effectively with the passenger?

If they send an email which is for information only and they still want the passenger to arrive at the airport at the original check in time, all they have to do is put the following sentence on email:

Please arrive at the airport at the original check in time, as this delay is subject to change.

How hard can that be?

[azstar]

Originally Posted by jimworcs

If they send an email which is for information only and they still want the passenger to arrive at the airport at the original check in time, all they have to do is put the following sentence on email:

Please arrive at the airport at the original check in time, as this delay is subject to change.

How hard can that be?

I agree. Auto e-mails and updates suggest that the departure change is definite when it's not. But, it's a no win situation. Passengers are incensed when they are not notified, and those who arrive at the new departure time are outraged when the flight leaves earlier than predicted.

[The_Judge]

jim, airlines lie constantly. I wonder who uses the phrase, "How can you tell when an airline employee is lying? When their lips are moving." And as far as the disclaimer you mentioned, I don't remember what they say verbatim but I'd be willing to say that the 'subject to change' phrase is in there too, but passengers lie as much as airline employees, especially on message boards so they don't like to write the whole truth as to make their complaint seem legit.

[jimworcs]

AZ Star:
Don't agree they are in a no win situation. They can send the information emails and put the disclaimer on those that are subject to change. How is that no win? Everyone is kept informed and no one will turn up late if the disclaimer is prominant enough.

Judge
If there was a prominant disclaimer, no one would ignore it. If it was hidden in small print.. then they need to change that.

[azstar]

Originally Posted by azstar

Passengers are incensed when they are not notified, and those who arrive at the new departure time are incensed when the flight leaves earlier than predicted.

Like I said, previously.

[Flying Dutchman]

However, in a small market like Kauai, when we reside, we often do not have the opportunity to vote with our wallets. We get abused by airlines and have to take it. That's why boards like this one are healing to our flying bones. Just FYI...We missed that flight that left early because Alaskan had a different departure time on their computers ( 11:04 ) then they advertised in their e-mailed to us 2 hours before departure ( 11:17 ). That is not right, they should stay with what they advertise.... Agreed?

[Ombudsman]

Originally Posted by jimworcs

Alternatively they could have put in bold a statement stating that this is for information only, and that all passengers should arrive at the gate for the originally scheduled time.

There is no justification for notifying passengers of a revision to the schedule then laughing in their face when they act on the information.

As flying dutchman asks, what would happen if your airline tells you your flight is cancelled. Do you not believe them and turn up at the airline. How do we know when we are supposed to believe them and act on it or not?

It is RIDICULOUS

Every e-mail/text message I have ever received involving a delay has such a disclaimer. It may be fine print and hard to read on a mobile device but it's there. Even if delayed it is still the passenger's responsibility to be at the gate area with a minimum of 20-30 minutes prior to the originally scheduled departure time. Delays can change either way. What would be the point, jimworcs, of keeping an aircraft, crew and passengers sitting at the gate buckled in ready to go but awaiting the clock to tick away the remaining minutes of an estimated departure time that may have been announced an hour earlier to await possibly a handful of stragglers? As xjcaptain stated, if it was a widespread misunderstanding or miscommunication I think we would have heard about the throng of other passengers this flight left behind as well.

[jimworcs]

Ombudsman,

I don't advocate the airline sitting at the gate twiddling their thumbs waiting for stragglers.

I argue that the notification should prominantly state that this informtion is for advice only and the passenger should arrive at the gate at the originally scheduled time.

In this case the OP says that this was not on their email or certainly was not prominant enough. I advocate that his should change.

[The_Judge]

I advocate that it did say that and the passenger did what passengers do and didn't read that part.

[AirlineSympathizer]

Originally Posted by jimworcs

Please arrive at the airport at the original check in time, as this delay is subject to change.

How hard can that be?

DANGER: Do not stick this screwdriver in your eye. It may cause blindness, injury or death. WARNING: Screwdriver is not to be used for surgery, sewing or constipation.

How hard can it be? Best protect all the sheeple from everything, huh?

[stonecold_1981]

actually with the footnote that Jim added, the whole point of sending an alert is rendered obsolete!
If it is physically not possible for an airline to send a delay alert with the correct new time, why send an alert in the first place? It sounds something like ..."Your flight is delayed by X hours (to 9.30pm for example). However, this information is of no use to you since we may change the flight time again and it may be BEFORE 9.30pm. You still need to be at the gate per the originally scheduled flight time"