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COMPLAINT: Treatment of elderly passenger

 
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  #1  
Old Feb 4, 2009, 2:10 AM
apoplectic apoplectic is offline
 
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This morning I took my 78 year old mother to the airport for an 8:20 flight. We woke at 5:30. The flight from Ottawa made it to Calgary, though the second leg which was to take her to Castlegar was cancelled. She called me at 8:00 p.m. to tell me that she was taking a ride with the friend of a young man she met at the airport to the bus station to catch a bus. It was clear that she was very mentally confused, as she repeatedly --three times-- told me to call 'Gerry' to come and get her, at 8:00 in Castlegar. The problem is that I am Gerry, and she should have said my brother's name. Further, she didn't even know the name of the man who was giving her the ride.

I can't believe Air Canada can treat an elderly woman, who is obviously tired, confused, and lost so indifferently. Would it really have cost them so much to make sure that she was put up in a hotel for the night, or even to give her a ride to the bus station.

Shame on Air Canada executives for not providing for customers. I can say, that so long as I have a choice, I will never fly Air Canada again.
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  #2  
Old Feb 4, 2009, 2:40 AM
PHXFlyer PHXFlyer is offline
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Originally Posted by apoplectic View Post
This morning I took my 78 year old mother to the airport for an 8:20 flight. We woke at 5:30. The flight from Ottawa made it to Calgary, though the second leg which was to take her to Castlegar was cancelled. She called me at 8:00 p.m. to tell me that she was taking a ride with the friend of a young man she met at the airport to the bus station to catch a bus. It was clear that she was very mentally confused, as she repeatedly --three times-- told me to call 'Gerry' to come and get her, at 8:00 in Castlegar. The problem is that I am Gerry, and she should have said my brother's name. Further, she didn't even know the name of the man who was giving her the ride.

I can't believe Air Canada can treat an elderly woman, who is obviously tired, confused, and lost so indifferently. Would it really have cost them so much to make sure that she was put up in a hotel for the night, or even to give her a ride to the bus station.

Shame on Air Canada executives for not providing for customers. I can say, that so long as I have a choice, I will never fly Air Canada again.
Oh yeah - this is the airline's fault! Just like US Airways when the family of the woman traveling to rehab let her travel alone on a connecting flight. She got drunk in a bar at Phoenix and missed her flight to Tucson. After becoming unruly she was taken into custody and while left unattended for a few moments tried to get out of her restraints and asphyxiated herself. The family blames US AIrways when in fact this person should never have been allowed to travel alone.
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Old Feb 4, 2009, 5:37 AM
Jetliner Jetliner is offline
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Hold on a minute - You cannot tell me that you mother acted like this and you don't already know that she has some sort of mental condition, be it Alzheimer's, or dementia or something of the like. She's calling you, and doesn't even know who she talking to. I can't believe you would let someone in that condition fly on their own.

Also how do you know that Air Canada turned their back on her? For all you know she probably wandered off on her own. If a flight cancels, we may be offering a hotel, but if a passenger never comes up to claim it, we can't do anything about that. For all they knew, she may have had someone pick her up there.

This is kind of BS why I left the airlines. I'm tired of people who can't take personal responsibility, and want to blame the airline when things go wrong. It's like the other lady on here who got a cup of hot tea, another passenger bumps her tray and it spills on her kid's leg, burning him, and she asked on here if she can blame the airline. How about let's not put a scalding hot liquid on the same side of your tray table as your kid.

Last edited by Jetliner; Feb 4, 2009 at 5:40 AM.
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Old Feb 4, 2009, 1:45 PM
countrynewsman countrynewsman is offline
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That person should NOT have been travelling alone. Forget shaming Air Canada executives...shame on YOU!
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  #5  
Old Feb 4, 2009, 8:59 PM
Leatherboy2006 Leatherboy2006 is offline
 
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My late mother had alzheimers and there is no way I would have let her travel by herself. I second acountrynewsman SHAME ON YOU for not taking better care of your mother and her needs. In some of the state YOU could have been charged with elder abuse.
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Old Feb 4, 2009, 11:59 PM
Butch Cassidy Slept Here Butch Cassidy Slept Here is offline
 
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Hopefully someone on here can clarify this: My understanding is if one can, to the satisfaction of the given airline (a long shot??), document the Alzheimers, and its severity, some airlines offer a discount fare for an "attendant."
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Old Feb 5, 2009, 12:28 AM
countrynewsman countrynewsman is offline
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I believe Canada instituted a rule last year for all Canadian based carriers that severely disabled passengers may have an attendant with them at no extra cost. However...not sure of their definition of "disabled."
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Old Feb 5, 2009, 2:19 AM
PHXFlyer PHXFlyer is offline
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Originally Posted by Butch Cassidy Slept Here View Post
Hopefully someone on here can clarify this: My understanding is if one can, to the satisfaction of the given airline (a long shot??), document the Alzheimers, and its severity, some airlines offer a discount fare for an "attendant."
Originally Posted by countrynewsman View Post
I believe Canada instituted a rule last year for all Canadian based carriers that severely disabled passengers may have an attendant with them at no extra cost. However...not sure of their definition of "disabled."
Some airlines will give a free or discounted ticket to an attendant traveling with a patient but only when there is a stretcher reservation involved. Usually the stretcher accommodations are 3 seats booked at the full Y fare so that's a pricey ticket to begin with. The airline isn't losing much providing a free or discounted seat to the attendant and someone who is traveling that needs a stretcher certainly needs an attendant with them anyway.
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Old Feb 5, 2009, 4:28 AM
Butch Cassidy Slept Here Butch Cassidy Slept Here is offline
 
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In addition to Air Canada (Domestic/Canada rules), I read the rules for American, Continental and Delta. No airline specifically mentions the illness "Alzheimers," but rather uses the broader term of "mental handicap" or "mental illness." All airlines appear to, clearly, indicate an attendant MUST accompany such a person--and--there is NO discount. Continental's rules indicate when a gate agent, or flight attendant, determines someone needs an attendant to travel (because of a handicap/mental illness), and, that person disputes the need, then Continental will transport, without charge, the attendant (I guess, assuming an attendant is available.) As to people who are traveling with an attendant, AND, need a wheelchair: Air Canada has an interesting rule. Under Air Canada rules an Alzheimers patient would be classified as "non-self reliant," meaning--"A PERSON WHO IS NOT INDEPENDENT; IS NOT SELF-SUFFICIENT AND IS NOT CAPABLE OF TAKING CARE OF ALL PHYSICAL NEEDS DURING FLIGHT, AND WHO REQUIRES SPECIAL OR UNUSUAL ATTENTION" Seating, aboard any given aircraft is restricted, to a specific maximum number, for people in this classification who, also, use a wheelchair. Small Airbus aircraft, for example, are limited to TWO "non-self reliant" passengers, using wheelchairs, irrespective of accompanyment by an attendant. Finally, another rule limits Air Canada's liability for injuries in situations where said injury would not have occured in the absence of the passenger's physical or mental condition. In the US, Air Canada might have a hard time getting a court to uphold this last rule.
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Old Feb 5, 2009, 6:33 AM
Jetliner Jetliner is offline
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In the US, this falls under part 382 - the Air Carrier Access Act. This is the ADA for the airlines.

I don't have a copy right off, but in a nutshell if the airline determines that someone is not capable of flying on their own due to a disability (and mental would certainly apply) then the airline is required to allow an attendant to fly for free with the passenger. The rule is, however that the airline is does not have to let the attendant stay with them until they return. In other words Gerry (original poster) could have flown with her mother, but when they arrived and her mother was situated with a ride home, Gerry would then be required to fly back to the origin airport. When it's time for her mother to return, she can then fly back and meet up with her for the return.

This might sound like a lot, but they don't want people claiming a disability to get an extra ticket for free for their friend to go on vacation with them.

The whole point of the attendant is what would happen if there were an evacuation? It is possible for Gerry to find another passenger in the gate area and ask if they would be the attendant. The FAA does not frown upon that. But that would be completely up to Gerry. I never saw that in this case, but I did have an 11 year old child in that situation. Grandma just found someone on the same flight and asked if they would look after her grandchild.

The part about limiting such passengers again is a safety issue. Under US rules, the airline MUST evacuate ALL passengers in 90 seconds or less weather that's a 19 seat prop job or a 747. I don't know what the Canadian rules are, but probably the same. If you have someone who requires a wheelchair, then they are going to need someone to carry them off that aircraft. So what happens is you would end up having a flight attendant have to carry someone off, somehow get back on, and get the next person. That put's passenger #2 in danger as well as the flight crew. So they limit it to a number that is less than the number of the crew, in this case 2 passengers on an A320 which will have 3 flight attendants.
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Old Feb 5, 2009, 8:53 AM
jimworcs jimworcs is offline
 
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I agree that if she was known to be confused or have alzheimers she should have been accompanied or at the minimum the airline advised of her vulnerability. However, it is not that uncommon for someone who has previously never been confused can suddenly become so. I have seen this many times, and the stress of an unexpected event can trigger this. I think we should not jump to conclusions, but if she was known to have a condition, you are right, she should not have travelled.
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Old Feb 5, 2009, 10:25 AM
PHXFlyer PHXFlyer is offline
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I think our answer lies in the OP's "handle" apoplectic. One need only know the definition to make a judgment there. We'll see if the OP even bothers to follow up with another post of if this is yet another of those "one post wonders."
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Old Feb 6, 2009, 2:20 AM
Leatherboy2006 Leatherboy2006 is offline
 
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it all comes down to the point is no wants to take responsibility for taking care of their own mother (or family) so they put the blame on someone else, jeeezzzeee this is his/her mother, the woman that gave birth to you, took care of YOU when you were ill and loves you. Take responsibilty and return the care to her she gave to you and don't expect others to.
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Old Feb 6, 2009, 3:22 AM
Butch Cassidy Slept Here Butch Cassidy Slept Here is offline
 
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Not suggesting that it's right to treat one's mother this way. However, until the last 5 years of my mother's life, I was in significant denial as to her condition (alzheimers.) Although, even then, I could not see myself allowing my mother to be in a major airport without myself, or some other responsible person, being with her. Also, as you may know, sometimes there are people who may fully recognize a family member's severe disability, but are so callous as to allow someone in that condition to travel alone on the claim "I can't afford it" (the extra fare.) Well, then, SHE shouldn't make the trip either!! Again, I am NOT suggesting this last characterization should apply to the original poster. Rather these are general comments on the subject of allowing the elderly, and children, to travel alone.
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Last edited by Butch Cassidy Slept Here; Feb 6, 2009 at 3:26 AM.
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Old Feb 6, 2009, 8:48 AM
Jetliner Jetliner is offline
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Well, I apologize if I came off too strong for the situation (i.e. if the condition was not known ahead of time.) It's just that I've seen people just drop off mom or grandma and basically run.

But what really struck a nerve with me, is she is just assuming the AC was completely at fault and just turned their backs on her mother. As I said before, it's not uncommon when you have a delay and you are handing out hotel or meal vouchers to have a few passengers never come up to claim them. Even with a cancelation, you often will have one or two who never come up to rebook. They either call reservations or just leave the airport and deal with it later. And the gate agents really have no way to know weather it's a business traveler who made other arrangements or someone in this case who just kind of wandered off on her own. Yes, they may have known that the passenger was elderly, but unless there is some obvious sign, then we have to assume they are mentally fit to be on their own. And if her mother was nowhere to be found, then what do they do? And in all honesty, when you hand out over 100 vouchers on a flight, you are not going to suddenly realize that the elderly lady on the flight never came to you if she didn't need a wheel chair and there was no request for meet and assist in her reservation.
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Old Feb 19, 2009, 1:49 AM
apoplectic apoplectic is offline
 
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I shall be civil in my response. I posted this as I believed that it was one possible route for making a complaint known to the airlines. Perhaps in this I was incorrect.

To be clear, because obviously reading is not a forte of several posters. I live in Ottawa. I took my mother, who is not demented and not suffering from Alzheimer s to the airport in Ottawa, and put her on a plane to Calgary and thence to Castlegar. Now the problem is that Castlegar is a notoriously unreliable destination as it is in the Kootenays and often clouded in.

She was stuck in Calgary, and unable to make her connecting flight to Castlegar. Now for the geographically challenged Calgary is about 3,000 km from Ottawa. I was in Ottawa, when she called.

Subsequently --which means after the fact-- I learned that Air Canada has a program called "On my way" which costs $35.00. Now my mother because she lives in Castlegar, which is 4,000 kilometers from Ottawa booked her ticket through a travel agent. It is too bad they didn't tell her about the option, as I would have advised her to take it. Indeed if she would have had this option, then Air Canada would have been obliged to make some accomodation for her.

However, in saying this, I would still hold that when a passenger purchases a ticket which involves more than one leg --hence a transfer, that the airline should have some responsibility to fulfill their commitment to get them to their destination.

Now, my anger, which was never directly expressed to a single soul personally, because Air Canada does not have a complaint line, was expressed through the message I posted here. Ergo, I did not react negatively toward anyone.

My point however, is that old people, for those who obviously understand little about the aging process, tire more easily than young people. Given a sufficient degree of fatique and anxiety we can all become confused. This is what occured with my mother.

Further, I recognize that the problem does not rest solely with the airline staff but rather with the executives and managers who have created airlines which are cruelly indifferent to the situations faced by passengers who are unable to make connecting flights.

Finally, I would add that my mother did manage to catch a bus, and to get home the next day, no thanks to Air Canada.
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Old Feb 19, 2009, 3:09 AM
Butch Cassidy Slept Here Butch Cassidy Slept Here is offline
 
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Transport Canada maintains an airline consumer section similiar to what exists within the US Dept. of Transportation ("US DOT"). However, unlike the US DOT, Transport Canada apparently has greater enforcement power--to the point of being able to order an airline to provide compensation. Although, in this case, compensation, if any is due, would probably be limited to a refund of the Calgary - Castlegar portion of the fare. I assume the cost of the bus ticket was less than said fare. In the US, airlines are not obligated to provide compensation in the event of cancellations/delays which are weather caused. I don't know if a similiar rule applies in Canada. For what it's worth, I think the terms of Air Canada's "On My Way" program MAY cover weather-related cancellations/delays. Again, I think writing Transport Canada can't hurt. You'll only be out the price of a postage stamp. Finally, I would advise you to write to your MP(s). If you are not already aware, the House of Commons is either now, or will soon be, considering an airline passenger rights measure. One of the MPs from Newfoundland and Labrador is sponsoring the legislation. Weather-related delays have, actually, been included in the measure. Whether such delays will be stricken remains to be seen. Needless to say the trade association representing the airlines in Canada is in strong opposition.
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Old Feb 19, 2009, 4:14 AM
apoplectic apoplectic is offline
 
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Thanks, good information. Appreciated.
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Old Feb 19, 2009, 5:34 AM
PHXFlyer PHXFlyer is offline
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Originally Posted by apoplectic View Post
I shall be civil in my response. I posted this as I believed that it was one possible route for making a complaint known to the airlines. Perhaps in this I was incorrect.

To be clear, because obviously reading is not a forte of several posters. I live in Ottawa. I took my mother, who is not demented and not suffering from Alzheimer s to the airport in Ottawa, and put her on a plane to Calgary and thence to Castlegar. Now the problem is that Castlegar is a notoriously unreliable destination as it is in the Kootenays and often clouded in.

She was stuck in Calgary, and unable to make her connecting flight to Castlegar. Now for the geographically challenged Calgary is about 3,000 km from Ottawa. I was in Ottawa, when she called.

Subsequently --which means after the fact-- I learned that Air Canada has a program called "On my way" which costs $35.00. Now my mother because she lives in Castlegar, which is 4,000 kilometers from Ottawa booked her ticket through a travel agent. It is too bad they didn't tell her about the option, as I would have advised her to take it. Indeed if she would have had this option, then Air Canada would have been obliged to make some accomodation for her.

However, in saying this, I would still hold that when a passenger purchases a ticket which involves more than one leg --hence a transfer, that the airline should have some responsibility to fulfill their commitment to get them to their destination.

Now, my anger, which was never directly expressed to a single soul personally, because Air Canada does not have a complaint line, was expressed through the message I posted here. Ergo, I did not react negatively toward anyone.

My point however, is that old people, for those who obviously understand little about the aging process, tire more easily than young people. Given a sufficient degree of fatique and anxiety we can all become confused. This is what occured with my mother.

Further, I recognize that the problem does not rest solely with the airline staff but rather with the executives and managers who have created airlines which are cruelly indifferent to the situations faced by passengers who are unable to make connecting flights.

Finally, I would add that my mother did manage to catch a bus, and to get home the next day, no thanks to Air Canada.
Still putting the blame on others when it is clear where the blame lays. SHAME ON YOU for submitting her to an ordeal that she clearly could not handle. And even with your "rebuttal post" you knew that her destination is often problematic due to "clouding" which is another word for FOG. You should have traveled with her to ensure she reached her destination then flew back home. YOU are negligent, not the airline.
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Old Feb 19, 2009, 8:27 AM
jimworcs jimworcs is offline
 
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I am shocked at your response PHX. Apoplectic says
Quote:
took my mother, who is not demented and not suffering from Alzheimers
You then say
Quote:
SHAME ON YOU for submitting her to an ordeal that she clearly could not handle.
What are you saying? All older people should be accompanied? How patronising is that? In this case, the passenger was not confused or suffering from any form of dementia. The passenger's plans were disrupted and she became confused. Neither Air Canada nor the family could have predicted that.

I worked in an ER and this is not uncommon, often with no prior warning or history. The point the poster makes is that this is not AC's fault. However, here they have a vulnerable 78 year old woman, and a bit of human compassion and effort by the airline staff to recognise the vulnerability of the elderly, disabled and perhaps younger passengers when disruption occurs is not too much to ask.

Some of this is not about training or special procedures. It is simply about a bit of human compassion. Recently, I was stranded in flood water along with a number of other people on a rural road in the Cotswolds. We had no information about what was happening and the congestion was such that we could not go back. After about 40 minutes people got out of their cars and I could see an elderly couple sitting in their car. Myself and the bloke in the car in front of me went over to ask them if they were ok and needed any help. They didn't, they were local and could walk home if they needed to, but didn't want to leave their car. That was fine, but we didn't need special training or procedures to do that.. it is just a bit of humanity.

One of the things that runs through these threads is the lack of humanity shown to passengers in distress and the hostility that airline employees have for their passengers at a vulnerable time.
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Old Feb 19, 2009, 1:06 PM
apoplectic apoplectic is offline
 
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Thanks jimworcs.

I think that you have captured the point of my anger. It took a fellow traveller, who as it turns out did know my mom from trying to get the same flight out of Castlegar, to take compassion on her. He was the one who called his buddy to pick them up, drive them to bus stop, and catch the bus to Castlegar.

Her confusion was a simple function of being tired. My mom maintains her home on her own, she does her own shopping and cooking, she manages her financial affairs. My mom is a woman who is active in her union's seniors group, is a recording secretary, volunteers for three other organizations, travels by her vehicle to the coast and to Edmonton to see her sister, travelled last year to Hungary.

She is a highly functioning woman who does not need to be supervised!

My reaction was also informed by a series of stories of stranded customers across Canada over the Christmas holiday period.
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Old Feb 20, 2009, 2:09 AM
Jetliner Jetliner is offline
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Originally Posted by apoplectic View Post
It was clear that she was very mentally confused, as she repeatedly --three times-- told me to call 'Gerry' to come and get her, at 8:00 in Castlegar. The problem is that I am Gerry, and she should have said my brother's name. Further, she didn't even know the name of the man who was giving her the ride.
Obviously she had some sort of mental episode. And yes it may have been just being tired. But when her flight was delayed, where did she go to? Did she even go to the gate counter to ask for help? You've never answered this. She may have never even gone to the counter.

This reminds me of a situation I had in baggage service once. An elderly lady flew in and came to report her bag missing. Her daughter pushed her in the wheelchair. The passenger was very adamant that she had checked her bag in when she left Detroit. Told us how she saw the guy at the counter put a tag on it, and saw him put in on the belt. But she had no claim check, and in the computer it showed her having checked in nothing. But her daughter got upset with us, saying that her mother was not senile or crazy.

Well, the other part I noticed in the computer was that she had flown from Flint, not Detroit. Not a huge detail, but the mother insisted that she had flown from Detroit, and again her daughter laid into us that her mother knew what she was talking about, until I showed her the boarding pass her mother had which showed Flint.

I then called Flint to try to find out anything I could on the bag. I talked to the agent that had checked her in, and he remembered her, but said that she had in fact carried her bag on. He also told me that the station manger was the one who had pushed her in the wheelchair. So I called the station manager, and she told me that the lady had in fact taken her bag with her to the gate, that she remembered putting it on the foot pedals between the passenger's feet (standard practice) and remembered having to help her with it for the passenger to go the restroom. She told me she would check with the gate agents, and call me back.

Well, it turns out that the passenger had left her bag in the gate. The airport police had said they found it over in a corner. When the manager asked the gate agents, they told her that none of the passengers had been in a wheelchair at boarding, but there was one elderly passenger who walked on very slowly, but refused help. They had found the bag in the gate area at some point, but they had no idea who it belonged to. So at some point, this passenger had ditched her wheelchair, set her bag down in the corner and ended up walking away from it. But when she got us, she just knew she had left it with the agent at the ticket counter.
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