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COMPLAINT: Haven't You Ever Overslept?
 
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  #1  
Old Apr 29, 2009, 4:13 AM
It's Ugly Up There It's Ugly Up There is offline
 
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I've been chewing on this one for a while, and thought I'd toss it out. I've been flying for twenty years and had the mistaken believe that customers are an important component in the airline industry's scheme. Not so.

In late January, our American Airlines flight originating at Dulles Airport (IAD) left 75 minutes late for DFW (Dallas) because, as the gate agent explained, the lead flight attendant had overslept and the plane couldn't leave without her. The pilots, milling around the gate, did not appear to be happy. Sleeping beauty finally showed up and we left.

During the flight, many passengers around me talked about missed flights. One woman talked about putting in an extra 8 hours of travel time and an extra connecting stop because of the oversleeper. I missed my connecting flight to San Antonio, but that's a milkrun and flights are frequent. When I got to DFW, I went to the departure gate for the next San Antonio flight.

Two women were there, standing near and behind the counter. I said, "I missed my connection because the flight attendant at Dulles overslept." The two women laughed and then ID'ed themselves as flight attendants, and one of the of the two, a flight attendant with long blond hair, asked me, "Well, haven't you ever overslept?"

I was taken aback by this defensive/aggressive comment and asked her,"Excuse me?" She repeated the question and I told her the obvious, "I am not a flight attendant." She ask me again if I'd ever overslept. At that point, the other flight attendant suggested I go to another gate and they'd fix me up.

I did, got my ticket reissued for the flight to San Antonio and headed back to that same gate. As I was walking by the counter, on my way to sit and wait for the flight, I caught the movement of someone behind the counter. I looked up and it was the blond flight attendant. She said, "Can I help you." I said, "No. You're the flight attendant that blew me off on this issue of the flight attendant who overslept." I walk on. She followed and said, "But, haven't you overslept?"

I said that I didn't think that was the issue and that because I'd booked the flight that day, paid a pile of dough for my seat, and that many others had missed connecting flights, that oversleeping by a professional airline staff should not be condoned. She asked the same question again. I said I didn't know how the question applies in this situation. "Come on. Didn't you ever oversleep in college?" At that point, the weird factor hit a high point and to disengage, I said, "Look, you're just defending your bretheren," and walked away from her.

It was an unusual circumstance, to be sure, but I shrugged it off, bought a snack and sat down in the waiting area.

About 15 minutes before scheduled boarding time, as I was engrossed in a book, I felt a tap on my shoulder. It was the gate agent asking me to see him at the counter. I honestly thought I might be lucky enough to get an upgrade because of the price I'd paid for buying the ticket on the day of the flight.

When at the counter, the gate agent said that the blonde flight attendant and the flight captain has decided I wouldn't be allowed on the flight because I had argued with her, I was abusive, I used profanity and she would be uncomfortable with my presence on the plane.

I was dumbfounded. I argued the point, unequivically denying abuse and profanity (which was the case) and I asked to whom I could appeal. "The captain is the only that can let you on," the gate agent said. "Is he near," I asked?

The captain was standing next to the gate agend pulling what looked like the passenger manifest or a weather report out of a printer. A few minutes passed and the agent finally got the captain's attention. He said, "Captain, this is the passenger that you've decided will not go on this flight."

With fire in his eyes and anger in his voice the captain pointed at me and said, "You will not get on this flight!" I tried to ask why. He cut me off and said, "You are not going to fly on my plane!" I was surprised by the pilot's anger, lack of professionalism, and the force of his response, particularly since he'd not been present for my conversation with the blonde flight attendant.

At this point, feeling like a I'd been tried and sentenced without the opportunity for a defense, a brief discussion, and airing of grievances, or an apology, I gave up.

I credit the gate agent with a professional attitude and response through the situation. He said, "Give me your ticket." I hesitated because I had no idea at the time if he was there to further tar and feather me, or help.

"Give me your ticke and let me get you on anther flight," he said. "There's one that leaves a little after this flight and I'll get you on."

When I got back home, I wrote up this account and passed it on to my long-standing travel agent. They sent the note to AA. A month or so later, I received an email from AA in which they said they would take action to make sure the flight attendant wouldn't oversleep, BUT a review of the case found that I was abusive, had used profanity and posed a risk on the flight. I should be glad that they were willing to put this incident behind them as long as I did not display such behavior in the future...an implied threat. Again, I've been flying with great regularity since the mid-1980s, and with NO incidents.

The folks at the travel agency said they'd never heard about such a situation or airline response. I've told this story to many, many friends and they are all shocked by the draconian nature of this incident.

The lessons for me -- It's a mine field in airline world. I steer clear of all contact with all flight attendants...at the gate and on flights. Individually, they may be nice people, but I now view them as I view a rottweiler.

I used to be sympathetic to their situation...getting beat up on salary and benefits by management, being put-upon by Homeland Security/TSA with constantly changing regulations, and dealing with the public who, I've observed more than once, can be real jerks and, to reference the baseball great Satchell Paige, the trip through the TSA gauntlet "angries up the blood."

Flight attendances and their enablers are now just another group of gnarly "public" servants who, in their small moments of authority, have the power to arbitrarily put a big bite on you in the name of safety, security, or a discussion they themselves have advanced.

In retrospect, this ordeal centers around the aggresiveness of the blonde flight attendant. I'd made my frustrated comment about the tardy flight attendant and that was it. Under my new rules, silence would have been golden.

Under their rules, silence would also have been golden, but the blonde flight attendant couldn't let my comment die a quick death of "no comment." Her badgering and aggressively behavior turned a simple puddle jump to San Antonio into a story that I don't mind telling when ever I have the chance.

And while AA couldn't care less about me as a future passenger, I care and I will avoid that airline with great delight. It's the only thing I can and will do.
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  #2  
Old Apr 29, 2009, 6:17 AM
The_Judge The_Judge is offline
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If this is EXACTLY the way it happened, shame on AA for treating you like this in front of a gate full of people.
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  #3  
Old Apr 29, 2009, 6:35 AM
Silent Bob Silent Bob is offline
 
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Uhhhhhh but haven't you ever overslept???? Not trying to be funny, but even in the airline industry, it does happen. The way I oversleep, I'm surprised I still have a job. But I blame the age,and I'm stickin to it. But a funny, one-sided tale, I do believe there is more to it than this, but it's still a good one.
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  #4  
Old Apr 29, 2009, 9:19 AM
AirlineComplaints.org AirlineComplaints.org is offline
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It's Ugly Up There, thank you for sharing your very disturbing complaint with us.

Silent Bob, your response is as ridiculous as the Blonde Flight Attendants question. Everyone has overslept at one point or another, but those who have overslept in College, for example, did not affect the lives of hundreds of other innocent paying customers. This Flight Attendant did and it is inexcusable - she is getting paid to do a job that requires ponctuality more than just about any other job, and she failed at that. The fact that the other Blonde Flight Attendant was not only defending her colleague but also abusing her powers to further inconvenience an already-wronged customer shows a dangerous level of blind comradeship and corruption of power on AA that lends further credence to It's Ugly Up There's complaint.

It's Ugly Up There, do you have any more specific details regarding this incident, such as any names, flight numbers, and/or dates? If so, please post them.

Silent Bob, if you aren't going to be helpful, then please refrain from posting on this site.
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  #5  
Old Apr 29, 2009, 12:25 PM
countrynewsman countrynewsman is offline
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I am sorry, Mr. Administrator, but I agree with Silent Bob. I feel there are a few details that have been left out that are very relevant and maybe some details that have been embellished a bit. I feel your response was unwarranted.
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  #6  
Old Apr 29, 2009, 12:50 PM
abutterfinger25 abutterfinger25 is offline
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I can assure you that all carriers take the punctuality of their flight crews very seriously and this flight attendant was most likely diciplined. However, that does not excuse any poor customer service down line.
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  #7  
Old Apr 29, 2009, 2:29 PM
AirlineComplaints.org AirlineComplaints.org is offline
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Originally Posted by countrynewsman View Post
I am sorry, Mr. Administrator, but I agree with Silent Bob. I feel there are a few details that have been left out that are very relevant and maybe some details that have been embellished a bit. I feel your response was unwarranted.
countrynewsman, why do you and Silent Bomb automatically assume that people that come on here to file a complaint are "embellishing" or leaving out "relevant" details? What evidence do you have of that? A personal "hunch"?

Do not automatically assume bad faith as Silent Bob has done above. From now on, please assume good faith when discussing with ours new members. Give members the benefit of the doubt instead of pretending to know their experience or situation better than they do. You were not there and neither was Silent Bob.

Originally Posted by abutterfinger25
I can assure you that all carriers take the punctuality of their flight crews very seriously and this flight attendant was most likely diciplined.
We certainly hope so.

Quote:
However, that does not excuse any poor customer service down line.
We agree 100%.
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  #8  
Old Apr 29, 2009, 3:02 PM
countrynewsman countrynewsman is offline
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Administrator: If you have paid attention to other posts, you would have noticed that I do not automatically assume that everyone who posts is embellishing. There are many more legitimate complaints than not. Nevertheless, when posters such as the psychologist whose child is allegedly permanently damaged due to PTSD caused by a flight attendant or another who states they were polite and got thrown off the plane, I have to wonder what the REAL story is.

Again, if you were reading the posts, you would also note that I have posted a couple of complaints as well.
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  #9  
Old Apr 29, 2009, 3:12 PM
Silent Bob Silent Bob is offline
 
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Every story has three sides: his side, her side, and the truth. It's what I was taught as a kid, and I stand by that to this day in my grey years (or is it gray?). I've seen enough where folks get hopping mad at an attendent, gate agent, whatever and then talk on the phone to whomever and state they are the victims. Same difference here. If the flight attendent were to come on here and say that the OP did in fact curse her out for merely asking him a question, then what? I know she is not here and will probably never see these comments, but we can't take all complaints at face value. This is what a public forum is all about, or else why have the option to reply?
Also I didn't insult the guy, just repeated the question that was asked. it's just a fact that people oversleep. Also I would not compare a college student to a flight attendent, that's just a bad comparison.... as a matter of fact I didn't make any comparison! Though a flight attendents job does involve being punctual, she is a human being nonetheless and subject to imperfections as all other humans. as abutter has stated the attendent would more than likely be disciplined for her lateness, but we shouldn't compund it with more anger.
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  #10  
Old Apr 29, 2009, 9:23 PM
Leatherboy2006 Leatherboy2006 is offline
 
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[quote=AirlineComplaints.org;8389]It's Ugly Up There, thank you for sharing your very disturbing complaint with us.

Silent Bob, your response is as ridiculous as the Blonde Flight Attendants question. Everyone has overslept at one point or another, but those who have overslept in College, for example, did not affect the lives of hundreds of other innocent paying customers. This Flight Attendant did and it is inexcusable - she is getting paid to do a job that requires ponctuality more than just about any other job, and she failed at that. The fact that the other Blonde Flight Attendant was not only defending her colleague but also abusing her powers to further inconvenience an already-wronged customer shows a dangerous level of blind comradeship and corruption of power on AA that lends further credence to It's Ugly Up There's complaint.

While the passengars were inconvienced by this lady oversleeping and the blonde flight attendant did go over board and should not have done what she did nor should of the captain of the flight.
But for goodness sake the oversleeping flight attendant just over slept its not like she was late for brain surgery or anything. I am sure the President has overslept. I think the administrator has WAY over stepped the their treatment of the flight attendant, I suppose you would like to see her put in prison for this bad crime.
By the way I over slept the other day and was late picking up a body....I suppose saying no died over it would be a bad funeral home comment
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  #11  
Old Apr 29, 2009, 11:17 PM
jimworcs jimworcs is offline
 
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I don't really think this post is about the over-sleeping. It is really about the abuse of power. Since 911 particularly, there has been a noticeable increase in the aggressive belligerence of airline staff, particularly flight attendants and gate agents. (There are also similar issues with Homeland Security staff, but as this is an airline complaints forum, we will leave that aside). However, the issue is that airline staff are able to use their power with no accountability. If the OP's version is correct, then this came down to the Captain deciding to believe his FA's version of events without ever even hearing the passenger's version. This is probably sensible CRM (Crew Resource Management) in the circumstances. However, for this to work, it requires the FA to have some integrity and professionalism. This is something sadly lacking in the airlines these days. Even if you disbelieve the OP when they say that there was no abuse and profanity, the FA behaved ridiculously pursuing a clearly upset passenger who had been delayed. Basic requirement of an FA who wants to be taken seriously... that they behave professionally and calmly. This FA numpty threw petrol on the fire...not sure I want her helping in a crisis frankly, whatever the OP said.

On the issue of the nature of the postings.. I can hardly be described as an airline sympathiser..but I really do feel that the whole point of these forums is to express your complaints and have a vigorous debate about the issues. I do not think Silent Bob was abusive in any way in his posting and scepticism is a healthy part of the debate. I hope we are not feeling the chill wind of censorhsip over what people say... this is the internet and the home of the free... (isn't it?)

Last edited by jimworcs; Apr 29, 2009 at 11:19 PM.
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  #12  
Old Apr 30, 2009, 1:02 AM
Silent Bob Silent Bob is offline
 
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Thanx Jim, i didn't feel I was abusive or insulting to the OP as well, but obviously it would appear I was. Go fig. As for the labelling, well it doesn't bother me. I think its something the MODs wanted to do for a long time, but were waiting for just that moment when they could strike. I don't take offense to it. Better to be a sympathizer than an employee... no offense to the employees here.
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  #13  
Old Apr 30, 2009, 1:06 AM
Silent Bob Silent Bob is offline
 
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oh and how was my response imflammatory???

Quote:
Dear Silent Bob,

You have received an infraction at AirlineComplaints.org.

Reason: Unhelpful / Inflammatory Post
-------
If you aren't going to be helpful, don't participate on this site.
-------

This infraction is worth 1 point(s) and may result in restricted access until it expires. Serious infractions will never expire.

Original Post:
http://www.AirlineComplaints.org/showthread.php?p=8388

Quote:
Uhhhhhh but haven't you ever overslept???? Not trying to be funny, but even in the airline industry, it does happen. The way I oversleep, I'm surprised I still have a job. But I blame the age,and I'm stickin to it. But a funny, one-sided tale, I do believe there is more to it than this, but it's still a good one.

All the best,
AirlineComplaints.org
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Old Apr 30, 2009, 2:55 AM
It's Ugly Up There It's Ugly Up There is offline
 
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A couple folks in this forum rightly have questioned the details of my story. I would too as there are always two sides to every story, and it's not unusual for the aggrieved to play with facts. That said, I'm comfortable with the credibility of my version. I've been a journalist, writer and op ed pro for papers and corporate for 35 years and try to achieve the elusive goal of true objectivity. The one point upon which I will not bend, though, was AA's allegation of abusive treatment and profanity. To twist Dylan's line a bit, "That wasn't me babe." I've had a few of the garden variety of disagreements and arguments, as we all have, over the years and I always come away with very clear memory of the emotional context. Both conversations with the blond flight attendant, while bizarre, didn't raise my BP. Shoot, I thought I was getting an upgrade when the gate agent called me over to deliver the bad news.

As to the event, I'm enjoy it's existence as a story that has legs in a social setting. Several friends have suggested that I not fly AA again as I might run into the blond attendant and she would certainly make me nervous. Beyond that, airlines like AA and employees like the blonde flight attendant will reap what they sow, and short of a passengers bill of rights, will continue to do so until something happens. Whatever that may be, I hope it's good. I have no doubt the greatest percentage of AA employees are decent folks, work hard and would have done things different and better. In the end, "C'est la vie."
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Old Apr 30, 2009, 3:09 AM
It's Ugly Up There It's Ugly Up There is offline
 
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Some one asked about flight details. The date was Jan. 24. The first leg was from IAD to DFW, scheduled to leave between 8:00 to 8:30 a.m. EST. While that flight was 1+ hours late taking off, the problems started in DFW with the connection to San Antonio. I believe the flight I was rescheduled to take had a departure time of 2 or 2:30 p.m. CST. I didn't get names and frankly didn't want names of the blond flight attendant and the angry captain. Better to, in my mind, stay away from any form of personal connection.
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Old Apr 30, 2009, 8:39 AM
jimworcs jimworcs is offline
 
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I, for one, am convinced by this poster... and it illustrates perfectly that the abuse of power by airline staff is totally out of hand. Time for Congress to step in and reign in these power crazed numpties.
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Old Apr 30, 2009, 7:41 PM
countrynewsman countrynewsman is offline
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After reading more, I am now inclined to believe this poster as well. However, I feel the abuse of power has also shifted to the Administrator.

How many demerits am I going to get?
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Old May 2, 2009, 9:49 AM
The_Judge The_Judge is offline
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I also think the moderator has gone too far in this thread. If you wanted to criticize one of your members, I feel it should have been done in private. I don't believe SB's post was inflammatory or unhelpful. But that's your call. It's your board.

Then to put a label of Airline Sympathizer under his board name because of it? As if it's some sort of dunce cap that he'll wear while he sits in the corner with his demerit point. If you feel that the moniker is a penalty of some sort, it's now confirmed to me why you have airline personnel register as such. You think very little of us and are basically putting us in a lower group. Again, your board.

If you were to treat all fairly here, alot of the airline complaintants would be banned for inflammatory remarks. But, they are allowed to speak freely and most certainly, embellish their experiences. When questioned, we, as airline employees, are told to be nice. Your board, you can do as you wish.

I can, as well. You are banned from my computer. This one-sidedness has gone on enough for me. I completely understand this is an airline complaint board. They screw up enough that they should have their own area of cyberspace to be complained about. But when you set up the board, you shouldn't have allowed responses then. You had to foresee that airline folks would come to chime in.

Anyway, good luck.

Troy
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Old May 5, 2009, 11:51 AM
AADFW AADFW is offline
 
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Judge, I've been an observer of (and occasional poster to) this board for quite some time now. Over the past two years, I have noticed a distinct pattern among certain "non-airline employee" posters who seem relentless in their defense of increasingly outrageous behavior on the part of domestic U.S. commercial airline employees. It seems reasonable to assume that these few but extremely active posters are motivated by factors that most members of the flying public do not - and should not - share with them. I think what the moderator did here was an effective and appropriate means of mitigating the resulting ongoing imbalance.

I have lived outside the United States for some time now, and I have experienced firsthand what good airline service is. For example, I recently paid US$200 for a round-trip economy ticket in Asia. The consistently friendly, helpful service was great throughout, and during the 5-hour return flight I enjoyed a fantastic hot meal complete with gourmet chocolate and ice cream. My wine glass was refilled four times with good French Bordeaux. The airline in question is known to be profitable both overall and on this particular route, which has at least three active competitors.

My point is this: the critical difference in this region versus the U.S. seems to be that consumers are far less willing to save $20 or $50 in favor of enduring poor service. Over and over again, fliers in the United States have voted with their wallets - and low price of fare has prevailed. Airlines fully recognize this and have responded accordingly by establishing lower and lower acceptable service baselines and fee-based revenue models. In a most unfortunate way, we, the flying public, have done this unto ourselves. Some sensible degree of re-regulation may ultimately prove the best vehicle to remedy this problem. The airlines refuse to accept universally higher costs as the status quo because, even though they would be a level regulatory playing field, they would decrease overall industry revenues. Industry lobbyists campaign tirelessly on Capital Hill to prevent this, yet the airlines still loudly insist that they're not greedy.

I digress. People have a right to complain, but the more important thing for each of us to take action. Call your congressional representatives. File lawsuits. Contact the local media when you've been badly wronged by an airline and have them cover the story. Forums like this are a good way to build the momentum needed for the public to do these things on a more consistent, wide-scale basis. When confederates, or people who are irrational in their views (for whatever reason) distort the horrific realities endured by frequent fliers in the United States today, it undermines the spirit and ethos of this board. I fully understand the moderator's motives, and I applaud his actions. In fact, I'd offer him a standing ovation.
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Old May 5, 2009, 1:35 PM
countrynewsman countrynewsman is offline
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I am curious to know the name of the airline that offers a gourmet meal on a five hour flight...all for $ 200. What part of Asia was this?
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  #21  
Old May 5, 2009, 11:49 PM
AADFW AADFW is offline
 
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Cathay Pacific. To reiterate, it was the chocolate that was gourmet, not the meal. The name of the airline was omitted intentionally because it recorded a loss for fuel hedging on its balance sheet last quarter, but for those who understand this accounting practice, the airline was for all real-world purposes profitable.

Both Cathay and its affiliate, Dragonair, hand out printed menus in economy class in addition to providing the hot meals on every flight over a few hours long. Hard to believe but true. And since the airline doesn't have the headache of dealing with overly-powerful unions, the flight attendants are mostly young, attractive, and extremely friendly. You sure won't see "ancient sky cows" with years of seniority to protect their jobs droning around the aircraft, stinking it up with sour demeanors and flatulent bad attitudes. Also, I've been given a service survey about half the time when flying the airline in business class, and I strongly suspect the airline actually pays attention to what I write.

Before you retort that there are regulatory differences at play please remember that's precisely what I'm advocating. Slightly more expensive fares for adherence to a set of mandatory guidelines will result in airlines having to compete at least marginally more on the basis of service rather than price alone. Come to think of it, perhaps by banning flight attendant unions such a regulatory scenario can be balanced out a bit from a cost perspective.

Bottom line, if consumers want airline service to improve in the U.S., we must be willing to tolerate slightly higher airfares - and we must demand basic, common sense regulation from our legislators in Washington.
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  #22  
Old May 6, 2009, 12:44 AM
AirlineComplaints.org AirlineComplaints.org is offline
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Originally Posted by AADFW View Post
Judge, I've been an observer of (and occasional poster to) this board for quite some time now. Over the past two years, I have noticed a distinct pattern among certain "non-airline employee" posters who seem relentless in their defense of increasingly outrageous behavior on the part of domestic U.S. commercial airline employees. It seems reasonable to assume that these few but extremely active posters are motivated by factors that most members of the flying public do not - and should not - share with them. I think what the moderator did here was an effective and appropriate means of mitigating the resulting ongoing imbalance.

I fully understand the moderator's motives, and I applaud his actions. In fact, I'd offer him a standing ovation.
Thank you AADFW. You touch on a very important point regarding the imbalance in the forum, and here is a private message we sent to one of our members a few days ago regarding just that:

Quote:
The problem we are seeing is that the debate is never balanced because the core members (those that normally reply to complaints from new members) is disproportionately Pro-Airlines. That's probably never going to change since it's the Airline Industry that has an economic incentive to defend their industry.

However, this is a forum for real people with real problems to post real complaints, and if you put yourself in their shoes after a distressing situation, going through the trouble of joining a forum just to express your complaint, only to have other people immediately jump on you and question your credibility, belittle your complaint, attempt to pick holes in it, and ultimately discredit it, then it defeats the whole purpose of this forum which is to give travelers a comfortable area where they can make their complaints public to keep the airlines under public scrutiny. If new members are attacked the moment they post their complaint, then they will not return, and that's a problem for us.

Open debates are fine but not if they question the credibility of new members based purely on "opinion". If a hole can be poked based on fact, then that is not a problem as it ultimately helps the traveler understand where they went wrong. But when Pro-Airline members (which we all know Silent Bob is, for example) pretend to know the OP's situation better than the OP even though they were not there, then that crosses the line and becomes completely unhelpful and counter-productive to the discussion.

The point of this forum is to help each other out, not tear each other apart.
We hope that clarifies things for everyone.
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  #23  
Old May 6, 2009, 3:30 AM
Silent Bob Silent Bob is offline
 
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Actually, picking holes in a complaint doesn't defeat the purpose of the forum, that's what a forum is all about. it's what begins and ends debates. Sometimes it ends where everyone agrees and sometimes it ends where no one agrees, but it ends. If we just accept what's given to us, then where's the debate portion comes in? If no one objects to a post then there would be no need for a debate true? There would be no need for airline employees or "sympathizers" to be here.

This "particular" forum" just happens to be about Airline Complaints. There's no fault as to why there are more pro vs con, there have been more than enough who have signed up to post their complaints but most have moved on. No one chased them away, no one told them to leave, they simply chose not to come back. And those that were actually chased away, was done so for a reason: because their posts were objectionable. But if ALL those posters did in fact stay, then the odds would be in favor of those who are anti-airline, not pro.

But to defend my position, I don't pretend to know the situation, I posted what i did, with no regrets, because I have seen it. As a frequent flyer I have watched people get arrested, denied boarding, or run late for a flight only to be told "sorry, no dice". Heck I used to be that guy, but I learned to mellow, because I realized that "Stuff happens" and I don't try to push blame, I just wanna get to where I am going. Hey I don't disagree with anyone that airline customer service needs some serious work, but it goes both ways. Eventhough we are the paying customers, we are paying the airlines to take us from point A to point B, not to abuse other human beings.

To restate, i did not belittle the OP, i did not abuse the OP, I merely questioned his post and if that's wrong then as another posted stated: why have the option to reply?
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  #24  
Old May 6, 2009, 5:59 PM
AADFW AADFW is offline
 
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Originally Posted by Silent Bob View Post
Actually, picking holes in a complaint doesn't defeat the purpose of the forum, that's what a forum is all about.

If we just accept what's given to us, then where's the debate portion comes in? If no one objects to a post then there would be no need for a debate true? There would be no need for airline employees or "sympathizers" to be here.
Silent Bob, the forum is called "Airline Complaints," not "Airline Debates." My understanding has always been that this forum was intended to be a safe place for people to share their airline-related grievances and perhaps find appropriate ways to achieve remedies thereof. Healthy banter is fine, provided the ultimate goal is to improve the pitiful state of the U.S. airline industry rather than to constantly defend it.

Originally Posted by Silent Bob View Post
I don't try to push blame
Silent Bob, I would submit your posting record speaks for itself where placement of blame is concerned. I have remained quiet for a long time, but I really do appreciate what this forum is attempting to do for those of us who are regularly wronged by the U.S. airline industry we are forced as businesspeople to endure. I think that airlinecomplaints.org has the potential to become much more popular, provided in part that people generally view it as a legitimate and comfortable channel through which to share their views.

Please let me make clear that in my own personal experience, a majority of my American Airlines flights are completely tolerable, and a smaller percentage are actually pretty darn good. However, the relative proportion of my truly awful U.S. airline experiences both in the air and on the ground is still beyond unacceptable, and I for one totally refuse to accept this as an inevitable "fact of life." Regularly attempting to create doubt that egregious actions on the part of airline personnel and management is not mostly to blame for such failure is counterproductive to the fundamental purpose of this forum.

With a spirit of understanding, there are things we can do together to institute meaningful, constructive change for both the industry and the flying public. Hopefully, that's what the forum is really all about in the end. Enough said.
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Old May 6, 2009, 6:22 PM
Silent Bob Silent Bob is offline
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: NY NY
Posts: 510

Although it is clear that this forum is for people to share their complaints about their airlines experiences, it is still a forum. And while most complaints have been met with helpful tips, there are some that are... questionable? I don't debate every post, I either toss in my own info based on my own experience, or question those who's experience, seems a bit off. There have been other members who have done the same; even though it's a complaint forum, not every complaint tells the entire truth and if it appears so, members call it out. If a person gets escorted off his plane, he can come here cry victim and tell everyone the airline abused him. This is where the debate comes in.

Secondly, dude (or dudette) you completely misread my quote about pushing blame, as it was not intended to reflect my post here on this website, it is meant to reflect my own experiences and as frequent flyer. re-read it again. or don't, it doesn't matter.

now "I" have said enough.
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