[camarors]

We recently traveled on AK Airlines and they didn't have a bag for our carseat. I understand that it may get a black mark from rubbing on the airplane or something. What I didn't expect is that they would put someone's dog (gross) next to my carseat and allow him to pee on it. It came out wet with dog urine and there were two-three dogs that went on that plane as I watched people pick them up.

There was no offer of compensation, just an agent who said we should have put it in a bag at the departing airport. I said they didn't have any, which he was surprised at. I had to take an entire day of vacation to take the carseat apart, wash it, and then wait for it to dry in the sun (thank goodness we had sun that day). Couldn't go anyway for an entire day while we waited for it to dry.

This problem could be easily solved by not allowing animals on planes. But I certainly expect that airlines are going to consider their human customers more important than animals and not put our baggage near the animals. Rather than worry about a bag for my carseat (none of our luggage have bags over them), they should have covered up the animal cage so when it decides to make a mess, it does it in the cage against its own cover so the one stinky wet thing is the dog and its cage, something for the dog owner to take care of instead of innocent me.

Apparently, AK Airlines feels that we should all cover our luggage, carseats, and anything else we might check in fear that a dog who is given more importance than the human passengers might pee on them.

[Leatherboy2006]

I was shocked to see you suggest covering up an pet's cage, they do something called breath.
To be honest many of us would rather see the pets on the plane as opposed to crying, screaming kids that kick the back of our seats (that just as parents say "they paid for, I paid for mine also and don't car if little Johnny or Susie is upset), I also hate the smell of a baby's dirty diaper on the plane and the parents to lazy to change them (couldn't you put something around Jr. to contain the smell like you suggested for the pets kennel?....yes this is scarsm)

[camarors]

I just can't even reply to that, its so ridiculous. You were a baby once, not a dog. Well, I guess I can answer...Do the babies poop on you on the plane? Do you have to take their dirty diapers with you after they've been rubbed all over your luggage or clothes and spend the day washing everything when you are supposed to be on vacation? I don't think so. But my four yr old had to sit on a plastic bag to get him to our destination and then we had to put our vacation on hold for a day while we washed and waited for the carseat to dry. Because of someone's dog and the airline's inability to have enough sense to move the animals away from my luggage. If they had put the dog owner's luggage up next to the animal so it could pee on its owner's stuff, I guess I'd be ok with that. Or, frankly, on your stuff since you seem to think its ok.

[mars6423]

Well leatherboy does have a good point, you cant cover up the cage because then the dog would be unable to breathe and that would be animal crualty

Dogs (and all animals) poop and pee its natural, they cant help that they have to go and they dont know that they should "hold it" even if they could, its not like he or she relieved itself on your stuff on purpose

So as long as its not on your stuff then it is ok? well thats nice to know

The owners luggage most likely wouldnt be next to the dog as in many airports there is a "oddly shaped/oversize" drop off which is different from the main bag drop off, and they try to keep suitcases and oversized articles in different but close areas in the baggage hold from what i understand

the airlines of coarse like always wont compensate for something that they didnt do or something that they couldnt control

[camarors]

Airlines ABSOLUTELY can control it. They can separate animals from luggage. Pretty simple. Now I'm the one who's shocked at this crazy conversation in which dogs and airlines are more important than people.

[mars6423]

Honestly in this case I'd hope the airline paid more attention to the dog than the suitcase, either the dog dies so your bags are fine or you go through the discomfort but nonlife-threatening wet child seat

are the airlines saying that the dog is more important than you or people in general? No they are not you feel that they are because the dog peed on your stuff and you didn't get comp'd for something out of their control, baggage holds can only hold so much and they put odd shaped bags together aka the dogs and childseat

Kids have accidents too

[camarors]

Again, the airline DOES HAVE CONTROL. They can separate the animal. They can put the owner's bags next to the animal. They can put the animal in a crate with solid walls and breathing space on top so they only pee on themselves. Many options. Children do not have pee all over other people's luggage. They have do so in a diaper or the toilet. And children are people, humans. Much more important than a dog.

It wasn't about compensation, although an entire day of ruined vacation is definitely worth a lot, and would be to you as well if it happened to you. Its about getting the airline to fix the problem so it doesn't happen again to anyone. Its about fighting for the rights of non-dog owners who have to listen to neighbor dogs barking without a fix, put up with disrespecful dog owners everywhere, and now apparently put up with other people's dogs peeing on their luggage (paid for in addition to a ticket).

[jimworcs]

I have stayed out of this, because I was unsure which side of the fence I was on.. .but I have to say that I think the OP has a point.. the airline could make a gap between the animal and the baggage, or put a plastic sheet over the adjacent bags. I think a little of care would go along way. I am not sure you would be so sanguine mars if you had a soft sided case, with designer suits in it and the dog peed over the bag and destroyed your clothing. That could be expensive. When the airlines charges you for a baggage service, they do have a basic duty of care to the goods.

[mars6423]

Since there is a area for normal bags and one for oddly shaped bags then it would be difficult to make sure their bags are together and I am sure the baggage handlers would love personalizing the bag layout........then we would have alot more complaints about delayed flights

Even if the breathing holes were at the top there most likely would be a higher death rate as the dog would be agitated scared and panic besides from swimming in their own ****.....they are living and they have feelings unlike luggage which can be washed out or covered

Jim......that's why when I travel I have a water proof/water resistant suitcase which has been fine and that includes it being drenched in the Singapore monsoon, stuff inside dry.....or you can cover the inside with plastic bags

[pattis]

here's an idea..take responsibility for yourself and put a damn plastic bag of your own over carseat. yes it sucks that it happned to you, however ptoblem could have been avoided by doing so. On a side not...i have seen dog kennels much cleaner and dogs smelling alot better than some child car seats. some are downright disgusting.

[jimworcs]

No Pattis, perhaps you don't get the nature of the relationship. The customer pays the airline to manage their luggage and in return the airline looks after it whilst it is in their care. That is how it works... the customers pay and the airline provides the service. Perhaps we should try your approach for other services. You take your letter the post office and buy a stamp, hand it to the clerk.. who shoves it back in your face and says "deliver it yourself". Or we can do into McDonalds and buy a hamburger. After paying, the clerk tells the customer "take some responsibility you fat cow and make your own hamburger". On reflection, I think I am liking this novel approach....

[jimworcs]

Leatherboy... you got issues.. and if your parents had followed your advice... we would have been denied the pleasure of your contributions and the world would have been without Mr. Leatherboy...I am thinking on balance, it is a good thing people have kids!

[Leatherboy2006]

Originally Posted by jimworcs

Leatherboy... you got issues.. and if your parents had followed your advice... we would have been denied the pleasure of your contributions and the world would have been without Mr. Leatherboy...I am thinking on balance, it is a good thing people have kids!

Thanks jim you do to, the UK isnot the perfect place so before you start bellyaching about things here in the US suggest you look in your own yard first.
I grew up in a time when people travel, they wear shirts, ties, dress, pants, and ladies wore dresses and skirts. Travelers did not wear tank/tube tops, flip flops, shorts that should only be worn at the beach or clothes that would do any ****** proud.
My mom (widow) took responsitbility for our behavior and did not expect anyone else to take care of us or lay our behavior on society or others(and we knew the results if we acted up, a spank on the butt never hurt anyone), like parents do today.

[Leatherboy2006]

I remember the OP next time I have to sit somewere and smell a bratty little kids diaper cause the parents are to lazy to change it. You chose to have a child NOT me, I am sick and tired of parents thinking we all have bow down to them cause they chose to bred. If you can't handle parenthood and not cause the rest of us to suffer for YOUR choice then may I suggest using a condom

[JMOThanks]

O.k...Mom here!! Traveled with kids and pets.
First of all..that is crazy!! Camarors..I agree you should cover the carseat. I did it...and I was traveling with my cat. too...

And if you have a child with you on the plane. Why isn't the child in the carseat?? I remember traveling with my son they required that if my son had a carseat to put him in it during the flight. I flew Delta and they did tell me he had to be in a carseat if he had his own seat.

I notice too that they do seperate the animals and the baby stuff because, when I took my stroller at the gate...they put them on last and take em off first. And animals are loaded on a differant time then the luguage. Because, they need to be careful of the animals...Oh I had to pay 150.00 for my cat to ride "cargo". My cat was a paying customer. So STICK IT Jerk!!!

[justme]

This problem could be easily solved by not allowing animals on planes.

It could also be just as easily solved by not letting kids travel.

here's an idea..take responsibility for yourself and put a damn plastic bag of your own over carseat.

Couldn't have said it better.

The customer pays the airline to manage their luggage and in return the airline looks after it whilst it is in their care. That is how it works...

You're confused as to the responsibilities of the airline. We have a responsibility to deliver your bag from A to B, not to babysit it like you are the president. If you're worried about your stuff getting wet, wrap it in plastic or use a hardsided case.

Something else that hasn't come up yet... what happens when your 15 bottles of shampoo you took on vacation come open and leak all over my bag "ruining" my stuff? Or the alcohol you're bringing back from vacation, or perfume, or mouthwash... your bag could be the farthest one away from the dog and still get ruined and it STILL wouldn't be the airlines fault.

[jimworcs]

If you want to know why Delta is such a horrendous airline, this reveals all.

This is what Delta officially says about it's responsibility for luggage:

Quote from Delta Terms and Conditions

For travel entirely within the USA, liability for loss, damage or delay in delivery of baggage is limited to $3,300 per ticketed passenger unless a higher value is declared in advance and additional charges are paid. Carrier assumes no responsibility for fragile or perishable items.

This is what their lovely employees really think:

Quote from Justme,

We have a responsibility to deliver your bag from A to B, not to babysit it

This is what Delta officially says about travelling with kids:

Your child's safety and comfort are very important to us. That's why we have travel guidelines and safety restrictions to make sure kids' travel is fun and safe.

This is what their lovely employees really think:

Quote from Justme

It could also be just as easily solved by not letting kids travel.

[justme]

This is what Delta officially says about it's responsibility for luggage:

Quote from Delta Terms and Conditions

This is what their lovely employees really think:

Quote from Justme,

Where in the T&C does it say we will protect it from someone's dog peeing on it? Or from someone's liquids in their bags leaking and getting on it? Or from the rain? It doesn't. It protects against LOSS, DAMAGE, and DELAY. The car seat was none of those things. It was dirty, that's it. On a PERSONAL level, had I been the agent she talked to in baggage service, I would have offered her a loaner seat. That didn't happen in this case though.

This is what Delta officially says about travelling with kids:

This is what their lovely employees really think:

Quote from Justme

I enjoy kids as much as anyone else, but I think you will find that the majority of stories you hear that involve both kids and travel end up being complaints about the kids. Kicking seats, screaming, crying, pooping, you name it, they do it. Do I seriously think we shouldn't let kids travel? No, I said that to demonstrate the level of lopsided we are dealing with here. Saying, "This problem could be easily solved by not allowing animals on planes." is crazy and you and I both know it. I was simply trying to show that.

[justme]

I can just imagine you telling the customer that your T&C's don't cover dog urine, so there is nothing you can do with a smirk on your face.

Pretty sure if you read again I said, "On a PERSONAL level, had I been the agent she talked to in baggage service, I would have offered her a loaner seat." Maybe you skipped over it by accident, but it's more likely you skipped it because it didn't serve your "Delta employees are the devil" mantra.

I think I would have been somewhat surprised to find it soaked in dog urine when I returned.

I would have been equally surprised to have seen a dog being left in the coat check office! Here's why I don't lend much credence to your examples... you say if your coat gets wine spilled on it while it's in the coat closet would be unacceptable. I agree, but because that is not a place you would have wine for any reason. You say if your backpack gets peed on while in the bag check office that would be unacceptable. I agree, but because that is not a place that dogs should be stored. The cargo bin of an airplane carries everything that people travel with, luggage, liquids, pets, etc, plus mail and cargo which could be ANYTHING. I simply suggest that to ban animals altogether because of one incident is a little over zealous.

[Gromit801]

Could the kennel be placed further away from luggage in the cargo bay? Maybe. A lot depends on weight and balance, and the luggage jockeys (a company called Menzies in this case) are told what bays to load and NOT to load. So it stands to reason that pets might be near luggage.

This one goes down as an unfortunate accident. If you were given the opportunity to place your luggage where you wanted, completely away from pets, and someone's toiletries leaked all over your luggage, who then to blame?

Sometimes, stuff happens. And FWIW, the child seat should have sure as heck been in a plastic bag, free for the asking at any Alaska counter.

[stevicus]

Just out of curiosity, how much room do they actually have in those luggage compartments? I think the OP's main argument here was that they could have stored the pets or her car seat in some other location so that her property would not be damaged. Was this not possible due to lack of space?

Also, why shouldn't cleaning costs be considered damages? Don't the airlines charge an extra fee for pets precisely because they know they're going to be cleaning up the expected extra mess? Under the circumstances, shouldn't the passenger with soiled baggage be entitled to some form of compensation, since the airlines are already getting extra money for the pet mess anyway?

[Gromit801]

The cargo bays are divided into sections, with aircraft framework usually parking the divisions. They're called "bays." As I understand it, luggage has to be placed properly to maintain the weight and balance of the aircraft. Other factors include the number of passengers, and fuel load. There could be times when they need all the cargo in a certain place to maintain the weight and balance.

I can see reimbursing the passenger for soiled luggage if the airline soiled it, but should the person with the child seat somehow track down the dog owner? After all, it's the dog that soiled the luggage, not the airline.

[stevicus]

Yes, it would seem that the dog's owner would be liable, but if there were multiple passengers with dogs, how would they know which dog did it?

I'm an avid dog lover myself, and I think that any dog owner clearly knows that dogs make messes. That's something that happens with almost absolute certainty, unlike a bottle of wine or perfume which probably won't break 9 times out of 10.

With dogs, however, we know that there's going to be a mess if they're kept in close quarters for several hours. That's something that anyone should be able to anticipate and prepare for. (We can expect that with dogs, but not with humans, which is another story altogether.)

Personally, if I absolutely had to take my pet with me, I would most likely drive instead of fly. That way, I can just have the pet with me in the car and not have to worry about what might happen in the cargo bay on an airplane. I just don't have the heart to subject my dog or cat to that. There are rest areas every couple of hours, and many hotels will accept pets. I'd rather do that and keep my pet with me than having him sit in terror in some box in a cargo bay where he has no idea what's going on.